Criminal Girls Censorship

They're criminals. They're girls. They're criminal girls!
kardonius
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kardonius » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:11 pm

Seventh wrote:
neonie wrote:
Seventh wrote:
Tohka wrote:The age censorship in Senran was the decision of some company head, not the ESRB. It was unnecessary and stupid, but is far less of an issue than the crap NISA is pulling.

Doesn't matter - the fact is that someone, somewhere made it so that it couldn't be released without that happening.

Nope. "Wanted" it to be released that way. Couldn't implies there is no way the game could have released without it, if it was just some higher up at a company making a moral call, that's about as far from "couldn't" as humanly possible.

No, couldn't. Unless there's some version of the game out there in English with the ages still?

It if it was because of someone's want, the end result was that it couldn't be released without that change - otherwise it would have been.


No the end result is not that it couldn't be released without the change, it was that it wasn't released without that change.
What happened or didn't happen has no effect on the potential things that could have happened.

Could not means there was no possible way to release it without the change. If the change was made because an individual judgement from an executive or other staff, than that means that there were multiple possible endings.

I.e.
say the one who made the decision was a single manager;
say that manager couldn't attend the meeting where this decision was made;
say that manager delegated his decision on this subject to a subordinate who did not hold the same level of conviction regarding needing to remove ages;
say this substitute manager was then convinced that keeping the ages unchanged was a better decision, and signed off on that.

In the above possible situation, the game would be released with the unchanged ages, clearly this means that it was a possibility for this to happen in the situation of a management decision to remove ages.

Thus, "could not" is not an accurate phrase to use in this situation, regardless of the probability of the above situation occurring or not.

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Seventh
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:55 pm

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. It doesn't matter who or why the decision was made -the fact of the matter is, as far as the game actually releasing is concerned, that was required.

Now, would it have mattered if they had left it? Could it have been sold if they hadn't made that decision? Maybe.

But because they made that decision, that is the statement being made: That the game needed that removed to be able to be sold and it couldn't have been released by XSEED without that change.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Criminaljesus » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:48 pm

Seventh wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. It doesn't matter who or why the decision was made -the fact of the matter is, as far as the game actually releasing is concerned, that was required.

Now, would it have mattered if they had left it? Could it have been sold if they hadn't made that decision? Maybe.

But because they made that decision, that is the statement being made: That the game needed that removed to be able to be sold and it couldn't have been released by XSEED without that change.


If its not required by law or ESRB to be censored than there is no reason beyond petty personal beliefs that any respectable business would lay aside, especially when the consumers are saying that they want the game released uncensored.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:58 pm

That's all well and good, but that's not what I'm saying. They needed to remove the ages to release it - that's a fact. That's not touching any of the alternatives or hypotheticals, it's the simple truth.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Tohka » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:06 pm

They were told to change the ages by one of their company heads for fear of backlash, Tom argued with the person and it was decided to just remove the ages entirely. This has all been explained already.

Again, they did not need to remove the ages to release the game.
Last edited by Tohka on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Criminaljesus » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:08 pm

Seventh wrote:That's all well and good, but that's not what I'm saying. They needed to remove the ages to release it - that's a fact. That's not touching any of the alternatives or hypotheticals, it's the simple truth.


Removing the ages is somewhat understandable , removing the punishment games is not.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Pyro Stick » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:24 am

Just had to register to add my voice to the anti censorship crowd. Long time lurker and with the current Euro shop pricing scandal i thought it was time to register although from what NISA have shown the past few days they don't give a crap about what their fanbase think. Whenever i hear a game i've been hoping would get localised is to be censored it just makes me sick to my stomach. NISA seem to forget that the people that are going to be buying their games probably already know all about these games and want them because of their risky nature. That's why they sold well in japan, caught out attention and and warranted a localisation so why do they think that cutting out the games unique bits will make them sell better here? They say its to bring it to as wide an audience as possible but they completely fail to notice that the widest audience are those of us wanting a full uncensored localisation. If they try cut stuff to give it a lower rating then they are alienating most of us to appeal to some other audience that doesn't exist. I just wish games would be released in japan with english subs so we didnt even have to deal with this nonsense.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby neonie » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:28 am

I quite enjoy your avatar pyro stick. It's pretty.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kudo » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:54 am

To me it seems like they don't realize that if they would bring games to the "smaller crowd" and make them praise worthy, not censoring them always and just making everyone shiver when they hear NISA is up to something again, then eventually that smaller crowd would grow and grow. Like it did back when NISA opened up.

I'm sure lots of people would have loved to play CG uncensored, these are japanese games and you can tell just by looking at the cover. Not forgetting the nature of Vita currently, 90% niche japanese games, and I'm fairly sure the paying userbase is currently not too happy about the news.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Pyro Stick » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:09 am

kudo wrote:Not forgetting the nature of Vita currently, 90% niche japanese games, and I'm fairly sure the paying userbase is currently not too happy about the news.


Niche is a word that it totally overused when talking about games and the vita. How can these games be niche when they are some of the most popular on the system? I'm sure most of the people that bought a vita bought it because they are fans of japanese games and they hoped one day some of these games would get a localisation because of their popularity. Instead we get the word niche thrown around so publishers have an excuse to be lazy with releases, giving us digital only and half assed localisations, which inevitably don't sell as well as their japanese counterparts and they put it down to the game being too niche, not their inability to deliver a quality product and listen to customer feedback. Japanese games arent niche, they are what we all want, but we want them complete and uncensored with a physical edition. I think Idea Factory got the message but NISA has yet to take the hint.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kudo » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:33 am

Pyro Stick wrote:
kudo wrote:Not forgetting the nature of Vita currently, 90% niche japanese games, and I'm fairly sure the paying userbase is currently not too happy about the news.


Niche is a word that it totally overused when talking about games and the vita. How can these games be niche when they are some of the most popular on the system? I'm sure most of the people that bought a vita bought it because they are fans of japanese games and they hoped one day some of these games would get a localisation because of their popularity. Instead we get the word niche thrown around so publishers have an excuse to be lazy with releases, giving us digital only and half assed localisations, which inevitably don't sell as well as their japanese counterparts and they put it down to the game being too niche, not their inability to deliver a quality product and listen to customer feedback. Japanese games arent niche, they are what we all want, but we want them complete and uncensored with a physical edition. I think Idea Factory got the message but NISA has yet to take the hint.


True that. It's not niche if it's exactly what you want.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:59 am

Tohka wrote:They were told to change the ages by one of their company heads for fear of backlash, Tom argued with the person and it was decided to just remove the ages entirely. This has all been explained already.

Again, they did not need to remove the ages to release the game.

Except they did, seeing as they're, you know, not there.

Criminaljesus wrote:
Seventh wrote:That's all well and good, but that's not what I'm saying. They needed to remove the ages to release it - that's a fact. That's not touching any of the alternatives or hypotheticals, it's the simple truth.

Removing the ages is somewhat understandable , removing the punishment games is not.

What I'm getting at is that the same mindset is likely at work, but SK could get away with it's stuff unharmed by removing ages due to the character designs looking older.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby vampko » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:12 am

Seventh wrote:due to the character designs looking older.

Mirai and you would get along great ;)
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:15 am

vampko wrote:
Seventh wrote:due to the character designs looking older.

Mirai and you would get along great ;)

Hey, I've said it before, but being less endowed doesn't always have to be an age factor. Plus she's not really the poster girl for SK. Or even close to being it in fact. :lol:
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby vampko » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:18 am

Seventh wrote:
vampko wrote:
Seventh wrote:due to the character designs looking older.

Mirai and you would get along great ;)

Hey, I've said it before, but being less endowed doesn't always have to be an age factor. Plus she's not really the poster girl for SK. Or even close to being it in fact. :lol:

She's my poster girl for SK 8-)
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
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