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Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:12 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
Seventh wrote:
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:Criminal Girls was, arguably, not treated as poorly as Mugen Souls
Arguably how? MS had the entire thing cut out, CG just edited it. There's no argument there.

shrugs

I won't debate about this, but others will and have, as you've seen.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:14 pm
by neonie
Exceeeept we know why the sales of the first Mugen Souls would have been poorer then they were expecting?

The idea for Mugen Souls was that they would try/hope to make it as popular as Disgaea. This probably means they split the difference and ended up producing 1.5x copies of their normal amount, somewhere in-between what they produce for a Disgaea game and what they produce for a much more niche title like Criminal Girls. But likely the audience that wound up buying MS only the niche audience and thus, some left over stuck from poor sales forecasting.

And while I obviously can't speak for the fanbase (you can never know what that silent majority if truly thinking), it's reasonable to assume that if they say their sales weren't hurt by CG's censorship, then they probably forecast the sales of that a lot better, and their fanbase wasn't much worse off for it.

What people forget to take into account is that a large amount of people aren't actually extremist in either direction. If they want to play something, they'll play it. And NISA isn't a huge company, so they have a better finger on the pulse of who buys their games than most companies. "Voting with your wallet" is all fine and good, but it's also not entirely necessary or really effective as a form of protest when they can simply look at their forums and go "Oh, people don't like it when we censor or edit stuff like this."

Going from Mugen Souls to Criminal Girls, you see a lot of the suggested community solutions in how they handled the editing in that, solutions that people are calling too far.

A lot of people who haven't get been here too long don't see the whole story. Don't see all of the pieces of the puzzle, and just aren't quite as well informed (because they haven't seen the whole conversation from the very beginning with Mugen Souls).

So yeah uhhh.... Weird, I don't know I decided to type all that up lol.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:18 pm
by Seventh
That actually seems pretty possible to me. CH pretty clearly was going for something Disgaea-inspired with the MS games (like they are again with Trillion), and if I thought it was going to have the same kind of reception as my other big series, I'd probably want to go for it rather than not have enough, as we've seen happen before where people are left wanting.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:25 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
neonie wrote:A lot of people who haven't get been here too long don't see the whole story. Don't see all of the pieces of the puzzle, and just aren't quite as well informed (because they haven't seen the whole conversation from the very beginning with Mugen Souls).

So yeah uhhh.... Weird, I don't know I decided to type all that up lol.

Would've been nice if people actually archived and documented this.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:47 am
by Ultimate_Nova_X
Another thing, back when NISA made the decision to censor this, they said: "We know that censoring a game would lose just as many fans as it may potentially bring in."

My criticism is censorship brings in fans?

I can almost guarantee this has been talked about before. =\

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:01 pm
by Rednal
It has indeed been discussed before. o wo/ ...So I'll elaborate over PM's if you're curious. No need to go over it here for the umpteenth time. XD

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:11 pm
by metlspaz
will this game ever get a prequel? (to explain the Himegami era) or a sequel even?

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:13 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
Rednal wrote:It has indeed been discussed before. o wo/ ...So I'll elaborate over PM's if you're curious. No need to go over it here for the umpteenth time. XD

Linking the page numbers would be easier.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:39 pm
by Rednal
I ain't going through 90 pages of angry discussions just to pull out a few relevant bits. Sorry. :lol:

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:17 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
Rednal wrote:I ain't going through 90 pages of angry discussions just to pull out a few relevant bits. Sorry. :lol:

And that's why I ain't requesting you to elaborate over PM like you offered. Given that it's likely you'll misrepresent and exaggerate the other views to make your position sound like the only reasonable one like you always did.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:31 am
by lopez
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
Rednal wrote:I ain't going through 90 pages of angry discussions just to pull out a few relevant bits. Sorry. :lol:

And that's why I ain't requesting you to elaborate over PM like you offered. Given that it's likely you'll misrepresent and exaggerate the other views to make your position sound like the only reasonable one like you always did.


It's hard to stay objective when the prevailing arguments and general discussion have been heavily biased subjective views.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:01 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
lopez wrote:
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
Rednal wrote:I ain't going through 90 pages of angry discussions just to pull out a few relevant bits. Sorry. :lol:

And that's why I ain't requesting you to elaborate over PM like you offered. Given that it's likely you'll misrepresent and exaggerate the other views to make your position sound like the only reasonable one like you always did.


It's hard to stay objective when the prevailing arguments and general discussion have been heavily biased subjective views.

You're misunderstanding.

It should be easier if you're trying to describe someone else's view objectively (fairly, in other words), whether or not their views are subjective in their own right is another matter. But Rednal is the last I'd trust to be able to do that reliably.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:16 pm
by lopez
This was the original comment that spurred Red's response, right?

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:Another thing, back when NISA made the decision to censor this, they said: "We know that censoring a game would lose just as many fans as it may potentially bring in."

My criticism is censorship brings in fans?

I can almost guarantee this has been talked about before. =\


Note: removed the size change.

Red's saying it has been discussed before. You want proof. He says he'll PM you, you say you want page numbers. He says it's too much work. You fault his reliability in "fairly" representing the discussion. I said it's hard to be objective when the discussion is of a subjective nature.

I can't vouch for Red's character, but I can say that the prevailing opinion, which hasn't changed across most discussions here or anywhere else, is that "nothing good comes from censorship." I've yet to see any meaningful facts/evidence to support this claim though.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:24 pm
by Ultimate_Nova_X
lopez wrote:I've yet to see any meaningful facts/evidence to support this claim though.

Either because of confirmation bias or because the burden of proof is actually in the contrary.

Re: Criminal Girls official info thread (read this first)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:23 pm
by lopez
At its core (in the case of games) it seems hard to prove censorship is harmful, given the source material in question. The compliment seems so much easier to validate.

I for one appreciate a good discussion with dynamic arguments and would love to see the anti-censorship side raise points in areas like behavioral psychology, sociology, gender dynamics, socioeconomics, physiology, developmental psychology and/or any other science based field.

At best I've seen rehashes of freedom of speech (though they never dig very deep) and/or weak allusions to economics (though socioeconomics would make a stronger case). I would like to stronger arguments from both sides, but especially from the anti-censorship coalition.