Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

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LeDelmo
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Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby LeDelmo » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:02 pm

Ok, now I am just posting my own personal observation on the matter. I am sure others will disagree but this is how I feel.

I have been playing Disgaea from Day 1. Ever sense that first game I was hooked. But, I never really got the same feeling sense.

I actually really hated Disgaea 2. The mechanics were solid and all but it just never felt like Disgaea. I actually ended up passing on D3 and went right to D4. Again, Didn't care for. But, this time I really didn't like the mechanics. Still don't have a full understanding of the Skill system in it.

I had almost given up on the series. But, than Disgaea D2 came out and I really loved it. Than I bought Disgaea 3 for the Vita. Again it was good but not great.

Now, Disgaea 5. I made a comment on here about it feeling soulless to me. Admittedly I may have spoken with out fully understanding why I felt that way. But I think I finally figured it out.

Disgaea 5 is a great game with great mechanics. But, as I went though the game. Everything felt off. Like I had already done all this before. The games story just felt like a rehash of other Disgaea's.

Most of the characters were enjoyable which I think held it above most of the others. But it still didn't feel like the first Disgaea.

What I liked about Disgaea 1 was the fact you were not really a hero nor were you a villain. You were a selfish Demon who always had to have his way. Laharl never tired to be a hero. Even when he did do "good" it was for his own selfish reasoning's. And that's what I liked. Laharl did what he wanted like a Demon should.

But these other games. Adell was actually a hero. Mao wanted to become a hero. Valv was a hero. And now Killia.
They are all Demons protecting the netherworld from an evil force.

I am so tired of being a good guy. Its such a cliche. And whats worse is the fact they are making these Demons out to be the Hero's!
Thats just wrong...

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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby Laharl2nd » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:37 am

to be fair you don't HAVE to be the hero theres a separate story on each of them (besides 4 thats kind of in the middle) that allows you to be the bad guy.

2 - had probably the worst evil/bad ending ever

3 - had the best one with mao attacking the human world lol. Also mao wanted to be a hero for SELFISH reasons he had no idea what it entailed he just wanted to be stronger and ended up becoming Overlord instead.

4 - I guess the god ending isn't really entirely Hero like its not really an antagonist path or anything but the ending is pretty interesting.

5 - I will give you 5 cause the only alt endings are earlier gameovers but 5 is a pre-quel so it kind of makes sense?

Overall I agree and disagree with you Laharl is and always has been my fav protag but valzy and Mao are pretty close. Killa is kind of just there I don't really hate him but I can't say I LOVE the character either, I liked Christo and Red Magnus way more than Killia.

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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby m0sdvs » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:47 pm

I agree with you that none of the Disgaea games gave me the WOW feelling like I got with the first Disgaea...I compare it to your "first time" as nothing can compare to it....(dd2 was my second favorite game)

I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying D5 even tho I feel Killia's character is a polished version of Valvatorez....I mean don't yall see the resemblance...both refuse to revert back to their oldself etc etc?
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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby LeDelmo » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:52 pm

Sorry I've been gone awhile.

IDK. I still think Nippon Ichi has been missing the mark. I mean all of the Disgaea's revolve around DEMONS. Yet what do they have them doing? Saving the world and generally not acting like Demons...

I wouldn't mind a Disgaea game where we actually get to play as the bad guy. Where is all this hero stuff coming from?

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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby Seventh » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:02 am

Laharl still ended up a good guy. Similarly, Mao wanted to be a hero for very demonic reasons initially.
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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby LeDelmo » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:49 pm

I don't know if I would consider any of the ending particularity "good".

I mean I wouldn't consider saving someone the same as saving the world or universe. After all Larhal is a Demon and he doesn't like it when others try to take stuff from him. Especially, if its something important to him.

I mean he saved HIS world because it was HIS world. Someone was attacking him so he attacked back. Than what did he do? He invaded the attackers world and conquered it. Sounds like something a Demon would do if you ask me.

One ending he actually kills the seraph even.

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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby Uiru » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:08 pm

The trouble with the first game's story is that it can't sustain itself. Etna vanishes from relevance after her story arc and then Laharl and Flonne might as well be generics until the last chapter due to Gordon/Jennifer/Thursday/Kurtis essentially taking over. And this is fine; they are dumb characters whose respective schticks have been well worn out. :p

Honestly the first game is basically a footnote at this point; everything else buries it. It's like Pokémon RBY; by every objective measure they're outclassed hard by their sequels but people are still gonna love it anyway. The general theme of the series (including the first) appears to be more tilted towards not judging people by their appearances/first impressions, and just uses ridiculous violence and huge numbers as window dressing.

OPINION DUMP

Best main character: Adell. FIGHT ME. Nuance and depth makes him an odd choice, I will concede. Rozalin is also top tier. I also love Valvatorez. Killia is SO bland he actually turned out to be interesting.

Best cast: Tossup between Disgaea 4 (everybody except Emizel was awesome) and Disgaea 5 (I don't hate anyone! Wow! Well, maybe Zeroken).

Best setting: Disgaea 3; I loved how every aspect of Evil Academy makes no sense whatsoever. If it were just thrown together they might accidentally have something be logical, but every way you think about it is absurd and that makes it feel like it was done this way by design. Also the whole cast was great.

Best story: Disgaea 4 would win this, except that Flonne turned up right at the end to Deus Ex the shit out of everything. :( Axel continues to get far more attention than he deserves; I tolerate his existence only for Pandora Ignition. "But they ruined Axel in this game" no they ruined Axel in his own game by not killing him off in the first scene. The best part about Axel in D4 was killing him repeatedly. Disgaea 5 and D2 probably tie for this, and 2 and 3 were also great.

Best opening: Disgaea D2 by a landslide. Then 2.

Best mechanics: Games like this generally get better as they go and Disgaea is no exception. I would buy each of the first five games again if their mechanics were done the way 5 is. So much bullshit taken out! I don't know if I'm going to be able to go back to rolling for rarity 0's...

Best generic roster: Disgaea 3. Disgaea 5 gets a nod for introducing a surprising number of new classes (and also bringing back old ones).

Best DLC: Disgaea 3 and then 5 again. 4 and D2 were harshly overpriced for stuff we've already bought multiple times already and the selection for both was awful. 5's was mostly retreads (having the balls to charge for Laharl was noted!) but it was cheap and also got me Artina and Sapphire in the same game along with Rozalin, so top marks there. (Why exclude Champloo from D3, though? And Yukimaru would have been better than Axel for D2. Lastly, who the hell keeps asking for sorcerers? Creepy zombie lolis...)

Best use of Planet X: Disgaea 1 is on the board! Also Disgaea 4. You want my money? Planet X in every damn game. I'll take Crossing the Aurora while we're at it. The only decent item world theme in Disgaea 5 is La Pucelle's boss music and I'm wearing it out :(

Best succubus: Disgaea 2 DHD, for PSP. The original Succubus model with D3's voices is the ideal version, in my opinion.

OVERALL: 3 > 5 > D2 > 4 = 2 >>> 1

4 loses major points for that pirate ship stupidity, and 3 narrowly gets the edge over 5 for its insane party configuration options. MORE IS BETTER! As much as I like 2, it's just a bit too old and RNG reliant... but there's nothing directly infuriating about it, at least. I cannot stress enough how awful pirate ship part collecting is. 4 would probably be tied with 5 if it weren't for that gigantic tedious anchor around its neck.

/skips away to actually play something

LeDelmo
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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby LeDelmo » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:07 am

Uiru wrote:The trouble with the first game's story is that it can't sustain itself. Etna vanishes from relevance after her story arc and then Laharl and Flonne might as well be generics until the last chapter due to Gordon/Jennifer/Thursday/Kurtis essentially taking over. And this is fine; they are dumb characters whose respective schticks have been well worn out. :p

Honestly the first game is basically a footnote at this point; everything else buries it. It's like Pokémon RBY; by every objective measure they're outclassed hard by their sequels but people are still gonna love it anyway. The general theme of the series (including the first) appears to be more tilted towards not judging people by their appearances/first impressions, and just uses ridiculous violence and huge numbers as window dressing.

OPINION DUMP

Best main character: Adell. FIGHT ME. Nuance and depth makes him an odd choice, I will concede. Rozalin is also top tier. I also love Valvatorez. Killia is SO bland he actually turned out to be interesting.

Best cast: Tossup between Disgaea 4 (everybody except Emizel was awesome) and Disgaea 5 (I don't hate anyone! Wow! Well, maybe Zeroken).

Best setting: Disgaea 3; I loved how every aspect of Evil Academy makes no sense whatsoever. If it were just thrown together they might accidentally have something be logical, but every way you think about it is absurd and that makes it feel like it was done this way by design. Also the whole cast was great.

Best story: Disgaea 4 would win this, except that Flonne turned up right at the end to Deus Ex the shit out of everything. :( Axel continues to get far more attention than he deserves; I tolerate his existence only for Pandora Ignition. "But they ruined Axel in this game" no they ruined Axel in his own game by not killing him off in the first scene. The best part about Axel in D4 was killing him repeatedly. Disgaea 5 and D2 probably tie for this, and 2 and 3 were also great.

Best opening: Disgaea D2 by a landslide. Then 2.

Best mechanics: Games like this generally get better as they go and Disgaea is no exception. I would buy each of the first five games again if their mechanics were done the way 5 is. So much bullshit taken out! I don't know if I'm going to be able to go back to rolling for rarity 0's...

Best generic roster: Disgaea 3. Disgaea 5 gets a nod for introducing a surprising number of new classes (and also bringing back old ones).

Best DLC: Disgaea 3 and then 5 again. 4 and D2 were harshly overpriced for stuff we've already bought multiple times already and the selection for both was awful. 5's was mostly retreads (having the balls to charge for Laharl was noted!) but it was cheap and also got me Artina and Sapphire in the same game along with Rozalin, so top marks there. (Why exclude Champloo from D3, though? And Yukimaru would have been better than Axel for D2. Lastly, who the hell keeps asking for sorcerers? Creepy zombie lolis...)

Best use of Planet X: Disgaea 1 is on the board! Also Disgaea 4. You want my money? Planet X in every damn game. I'll take Crossing the Aurora while we're at it. The only decent item world theme in Disgaea 5 is La Pucelle's boss music and I'm wearing it out :(

Best succubus: Disgaea 2 DHD, for PSP. The original Succubus model with D3's voices is the ideal version, in my opinion.

OVERALL: 3 > 5 > D2 > 4 = 2 >>> 1

4 loses major points for that pirate ship stupidity, and 3 narrowly gets the edge over 5 for its insane party configuration options. MORE IS BETTER! As much as I like 2, it's just a bit too old and RNG reliant... but there's nothing directly infuriating about it, at least. I cannot stress enough how awful pirate ship part collecting is. 4 would probably be tied with 5 if it weren't for that gigantic tedious anchor around its neck.

/skips away to actually play something


Hmm, I guess that's you're opinion. I dont think I would agree with much there tho... I mean I hated Adell with a passion. He nearly single handily almost ending my relationship with the Disgaea series.

If I had to rate them in order it would be 1 > D2 > 3 > 5 > 4 > 2

All I am saying is, I would like to see my Demon army be a little more evil is all. You know?

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Re: Finally figured out whats been missing from the Disgaea series!

Postby Uiru » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:22 am

All I am saying is, I would like to see my Demon army be a little more evil is all. You know?


As I said, the theme of not judging people by their appearances (which is a well hammered point made by all Disgaea games) indicates that that is not likely to occur. The whole idea is that just because they are demons, they are not inherently evil. Crazy violent, sure! But this is a universe where actually dying is remarkably difficult to do, so...


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