Disgaea 5 Suggestions (And Class suggestions)

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Popoy
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Re: Disgaea 5 Suggestions (And Class suggestions)

Postby Popoy » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:30 am

magnum12 wrote:
LazamairAMD wrote:
1. The mechanics are already well balanced. Disgaea has been around for 10 years now, I have a feeling NIS is not going to change (too much) a formula that is proven to be both challenging and fun.


In terms of the mechanics themselves, I would be inclined to agree. However, my argument isn't about the formula as a whole. It's about one small part of the damage formula (the upgrade modifiers) that's single handedly ruining an otherwise strong "skeleton of balance", and that effect is invalidating a whole bunch of game play. Once the special attack upgrades introduced in D3 start getting past 300%, the skeleton literately crumbles to dust, which starts to kill the challenge (the latest two games are considerably easier due to one shotting being so easy).

3. Double Actions would overwhelmingly break the strategy and the challenge.


I don't see how. Since the basic skeleton of an SRPG or games that play like one (many Table top RPGS) can be broken down into each unit getting two actions (typically movement and attacking/casting/using items), how would actions that require you to use BOTH of a unit's allowed actions (hence the term "double action") to use harm the game. When one takes the concept of "action economy" into consideration, "double actions" would make a player think wisely about how they use that "action economy". Given that many battles in Disgaea are elite (you) vs horde (enemy), "action economy" becomes more important since while elite armies have more powerful individual units, they have to make every action count since horde armies have a significant advantage in terms of "action economy".

4. The idea of Cover was introduced in Disgaea 4, where a defender up front will soak damage, while those characters behind him/her takes nothing. This is only for physical attacks, most specials will still do damage based on the panels covered.


What I meant is pieces of the map (such as crates, destructible terrain, etc) that a unit can hide behind that increases their evasion rate (depending on the quality of cover) against attacks from enemies that draw a line of sight through the cover. If the attack misses, the cover takes the damage instead. In order to benefit from cover, the unit must be directly behind the source of cover.

5. I dunno. The items you are referring to are already Rank 39, as such, they provide amazing bonuses, especially when perfected.


The problem is that since amongst the accessories, only emblems get to rank 40, which means that emblems are overall considerably better than the others because their net bonuses are stronger, especially when perfected. With the other items being rank 40, mass emblems isn't such a no brainer choice anymore.

Got some more ideas.

6. Changes to sight rules: Essentially, if the unit cannot see its target (even when it's in legal range), it can't attack it. Exceptions: Indirect fire attacks (from bows and magic) but with significant accuracy penalties. Allows the player to set up ambushes or alternatively force the player to move with caution and try to bait the enemy out of its posistion in order to set up a counter attack.

7. Smarter AI. IMO one of the reasons why the series feels too easy is because the AI makes a lot of dumb decisions.

8. Overall tougher difficulty: Ideally, I'd love to see the next game be "really hard but in such a way that it never feels cheap or unfair". Examples of this sort of difficulty: Mega Man Zero and Demon's Souls.



Good Suggestions

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Chamaeleonx
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Re: Disgaea 5 Suggestions (And Class suggestions)

Postby Chamaeleonx » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:21 am

Intrudicing sight would make Farming in the Itemworld so much longer as you have to see the enemy and sometimes you just cant, that would use up more turns, which equals to longer farming in the long run.

Character creation would be stupid and ruin the game. What Disgaea makes Disgaea are the classes with their evility. If you can free customize everything then there would be some combos that would be invincible.

New Weapon types, well we get the Book in Disgaea D2. There you go.

Smarter A.I. would b good, in combination with smarter use of Status effects and such. But that is hard to make in a strategie game :/. You would need so many options for every action of the 10 characters you use. Would be great, but hard to programm. Its not like Disgaea enemys are chess computers.
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What i would love is more characters in general, different gender, even if it is just for the style. You could make an option that you can choose the gender uppon creation. Same as with voice.

More depth in the system and more tricky and hard to find combinations of the mechanic :P.

Longer story with story branches and decisions, so you have different story parts and you need every part to get every monster/character. Basicly that you can choose between battles or Dialog options, you can choose to win or too loose for different branches. Would make even more awesome stories avaible.

Colour changer for Weapons, we can now see every weapon. So why not implement that you can use the Sprite of the Weapon you like. Therefore you could use the small Ninjablade as the "skin" for your Ultimate 40 Rank weapon.

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Re: Disgaea 5 Suggestions (And Class suggestions)

Postby DarkAdonis018 » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:30 pm

I have to say I love the Disgaea series. Been playing since Laharl had his game system stepped on!!

I have to say I am super excited for D5 but I would definitely think a couple of things would be awesome additions:

God Weapons (much stronger then item 40 and 40-2) which can only find one after defeating the corresponding Weapon God - who transforms into the weapon after its defeat. Bound to a character and gives incredible power and unique special attacks (Kinda like what happened with Gig in Soul Nomad. The weapon is bound to a Character and can never be removed, but gives crazy amount of power to the wielder as well as possible Boss weapon attacks as well). Since quests are a thing in D5.. maybe you can only find these "Gods" from a special quest or hints that are provided in the IW. And when you have all the clues you can go to that special location. Something to that affect

The ability to create your own unique character and character skills and area affects (pay for with hell and mana to upgrade or create) - The same with Evilties - It can be like a Frankenstein type scenario where you can put parts from different monsters/humanoids to make a brand new Unique Character you can have only 1 of. This may even help to immerse the player in the game.. because they are being more creative. Also the character painter would need to get an overhaul (which I think they already have done).

***Obviously the suggestions of the game changes could potentially end up in combinations that would make the game stupid easy, but this is Disgaea -- players play this to become stupid invincible and stupid strong. Any way to improve the basis of why people play disgaea would be better. I mean bragging rights because you hit 1 zillion damage to an enemy is a great feeling so... yea! This would make invaders from other worlds potentially ridiculous as well but there is an item for that (Gency's Gate) or moving to the next floor if you can get there***

More Evilties as well as the ability to copy another units unique Evilty (i.e. I would love to give a ghosts ability to regenerate 10%of SP each turn to my Main Characters )

More player interactions with Main Story - as in a workflow that could trigger different events in the story based off the response of the player. Kinda does now with alternative endings, but more smaller and subtle decisions that could impact the game would be awesome too.

Smarter I.E so the player has to be more cautious in the decisions they make.

I would love to to see a lot of the old Monster classes and Humanoid classes re-added. Such as the Great Wyrm or Serpent class for monsters or the Majin class from the Humanoid class (I loved that class and design).

Anyway there is my 2 cents lol

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Re: Disgaea 5 Suggestions (And Class suggestions)

Postby Cboku12 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:53 pm

I like your suggestions darkadonis. Adding on to that...

Disgaea 1/Disgaea 4 player here. I'm a FFTactics fan at heart so you know...

1. Combat animations too long: Yes, I get that you can turn them off. You have to with all the grinding. My problem is that once you turn them off you face the opposite problem, a lack of.. well, visuals. If you have them on you have to watch these animations that are just too long and imo too elaborate. I wish the game just gave you some on screen animations without cutting to a cutscene. This is one of my biggest qualms with the series (without getting into deeper mechanics).

2. Get rid of inifinite item god killing/duping that was in D4 and some previous ones. I thought this hurt the game just because it doesn't make much sense, it sowed the seeds of the games undoing, when I realized its necessity. You sort of have to do it too to clock in at a decent time, who wants to build more than one lvl 500 guardians when the option to dupe is there? Answer, you wouldn't when reverse pirating and capturing the innocent usually just gives you a lvl 4 guardian... that's 125 captured guardians from reverse pirating which is nuts. With duping I've got scores of items storing extra maxed guardians (which is another thing, can we get innocent storage as a fixed feature now?). Anyways, another problem is the act of repeat killing the item god and gency exiting. It takes no effort, just lots of gency exits and it takes no effort, just time, to get more gencys. It takes some 75 some IG kills, and not even kills versus the LoC IG (like should've been required, or scaling difficulty on the IG for each attempt) but no, just kill the regular old IG needed to be killed en masse, to get a trap maxed or whatever else before you then go to dupe that. That's boring and thats the easiest that requires the fewest IG kills, after that it goes way up. Which kind of leads me to emblems being too good (why would you not go for the item that adds to all stats?) and items like boots/glasses/belts not getting a lot of love from what i've seen.

3. Update the sprite designs. I was happy and sad to see the sprites in Disgaea 4 after having played 1. Was happy to see updated graphics of course but I was sad to see the sprite designs were essentially the same, along with ditching some of my favorite monsters (loved the D1 golem : ( )... units like the dragon look the same, design wise as it did in the original (not that it's a bad looking dragon at all), units like the zombie, however, I'd love to see a redesign for, maybe a couple zombie sprites to choose from ideally, etc. I would like to see some redesigns of the generic units too, the valkyrie, the archer, the mage classes, etc. It's getting visually stale and sort of weird to me that after four games that they look the same. I did like the character painter from Disgaea 4 a lot though and hope that's in the next one. Would like to see Male/Female versions of every class selectable upon creation rather than creating the opposite gender unit (for some) separately... you telling me there aren't male archers?

4. Sort of wish the game did turn orders differently. Not a fan of the "Alright, your entire army goes first, then your side...". I understand that with units being dispatched out of the base panel, it sort of forces that to be the design... however, I really think combat would be better if disgaea used something more traditional, like, speed determining turn order. What about ENEMIES getting a sneak attack? Why shouldn't this be possible in Disgaea? That is, what if enemies got their turn first.. it just seems sort of unfair that my units always get the jump, which is a big deal. It's sort of a blurr sometimes to see the battles too, in this format at least, especially with aforementioned animations turned off. One side moves all at once, delivering damage figures in quick succession... which allows for massive attack stacking in a game that already specializes now in one hit KO moves (as someone mentioned, once sp.attack multipliers go over 300%, it's one hit KO-ville basically). I hardly ever have to dispatch my full team either.

5. More elements. Wind, fire, ice... that's it? I guess it's 4 though, right? Forgot about star (which for whatever reason is abundant, easy to learn and doesn't have an associated resistance...). What about Earth? Water? Holy? Dark? Lightning? Its annoying to see moves that are clearly just LIGHTNING without the associated element for it (Take the guardian move "Shocking shock" as a perfect example, where he unleashes bolts, sparking the water the targeted units are standing in.). Wouldn't mind more status effects too... again, seems like that hasn't been updated since the original. How about a confusion like status? Something like Berserk too. Also, I don't think a move should be able to inflict status if it does zero damage (other than pure status moves like 'slumber' of course).

6. No more class DLC stuff: Was annoyed to learn that the DLC I got for the PS3 version was INCLUDED in the vita version along with lots of extra convenient features (some of which are massive time saves, see the handy cheat code to unlock all content at main menu). I'm curious as to why this is when they're both sony made systems, why is there version exclusivity? What if I'm a person who doesn't like handhelds and doesn't plan on owning one? I'd like to see a little more balance struck between versions because I'm not buying a vita just to play this game with a few extra perks.

7. Fighting itself doesn't yield much: IMO this game has become more item based than character based... yes, aptitudes matter but any newly created or captured character becomes a wrecker once you throw a good emblem on them. Guardians are ridiculous, considering you can have 3 + the specialized innocent for similarly boosting a characters weapon. I feel like I spent a lot of time fighting early on with my crew, just fighting in the item world or here or there, leveling my guys and in the end I can take a new character and make them better than one of my original units (who has been hacking and slashing since the first act) with a few easier chara runs. I wish just fighting itself could confer more bonuses to your characters than skill experience (which.. I'm sort of confused about what it matters when skills get such ridiculous multipliers anyways).

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Disgaea has a lot of things I've never seen in these types of games, its got some originality there, it does a lot of interesting things and I like that they try to turn mistakes into "happy mistakes" and implement things that were bugs into the game as features but they need to go all the way with it and have it make sense. Again, with duping as an example, I like how it saves you time on having to level another item of that type to 300 (plus innocent duping whats on it) but I wish that it made more sense. Its hard for me to wrap my head around it from a story standpoint. How about instead of duping, you add a later game NPC called the "Forge master" or some shit to your base, who takes a certain amount of time to forge you a new copy of a piece of equipment you give him to hold, legendaries could take longer, higher leveled items, etc. It just feels weird and unnatural for your characters to have this narrative where they are duping items off of senators or item world clones (makes more sense than the senators but way more frustrating).Duping turns the game into a dupe fest too... I found myself torn between fighting and duping more powerful innocents/items. If you just gave the item to someone to dupe, you wouldn't be torn, you wouldn't have to waste time on duping and could get back to fighting.


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