Hope totori isn't like rorona

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Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Tiredman » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:32 pm

I must say, i seriously hope Totori doesn't have rorona's time system. I thoroughly disliked every single non npc involved action costing time in Rorona. I don't mind dungeons costing days, but for every single alchemy combine to cost days, some of which took way too many days, well, it sapped the fun of what is supposed to be the backbone of the Atelier series, the alchemy and item collecting.

What do you folks think.

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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby vampko » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:35 pm

:lol:

It does, but it's been tweaked. Though in what ways I'm not sure. Really, not sure why so many people are against it. it really helps replay value.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Obake » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:28 am

I don't really see how it helps replay value, I'd attribute that to the multitude of endings.

I don't have anything against the time limits though. They're never particularly constricting, but they do give you something to use your brain to work against. Makes the game a bit more engaging in my opinion.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:15 am

Obake wrote:I don't really see how it helps replay value, I'd attribute that to the multitude of endings.

I don't have anything against the time limits though. They're never particularly constricting, but they do give you something to use your brain to work against. Makes the game a bit more engaging in my opinion.

It helps replay value, because, you can't do everything your first playthrough. And every playthrough can be time spent differently. It's much like a 'choices' system that changes how the story progresses. Basically, unless you are somehow able to replicate what you did, no two playthroughs will be alike. Making it a different experience every time. Just, it would be nice if you could skip the main story scenes. Would have made doing more than one playthrough a LOT easier.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Tiredman » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:47 am

My problem is all the difficulty of the game is due to time constraints, and I honestly think that is the only reason they implemented it. The time limit doesnt let you make powerful gear easily, makes it so you can't grind your lv's, makes it so you can't collect items in large enough amounts . All the difficulty is based on the time, and I don't like that. They slacked off on balancing by putting 2 days per ingot and cloth alchemy. It is set up so if you go and do your own thing and collect items, you end up spending almost the entire last month doing nothing but quest combines because you need so many for some assignments.

When I play an rpg, I expect to be able to play it, not be forced into a timer. That was one thing I didn't like about Neptune too, the timer's for dungeons, as it made things too rushed for my taste, because I just couldn't ignore the clock. Dungeons were boring, but the annoying clock made me do some dungeons over, boring ones, just to get an S rank.

I guess my point is games that are based entirely on time constraints like Rorona just aren't my thing, and after playing the awesome earlier ateliers, it would be a shame for me to have to quit the series because they took away what was fun for me.

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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:00 am

Tiredman wrote:My problem is all the difficulty of the game is due to time constraints, and I honestly think that is the only reason they implemented it. The time limit doesnt let you make powerful gear easily, makes it so you can't grind your lv's, makes it so you can't collect items in large enough amounts . All the difficulty is based on the time, and I don't like that. They slacked off on balancing by putting 2 days per ingot and cloth alchemy. It is set up so if you go and do your own thing and collect items, you end up spending almost the entire last month doing nothing but quest combines because you need so many for some assignments.

When I play an rpg, I expect to be able to play it, not be forced into a timer. That was one thing I didn't like about Neptune too, the timer's for dungeons, as it made things too rushed for my taste, because I just couldn't ignore the clock. Dungeons were boring, but the annoying clock made me do some dungeons over, boring ones, just to get an S rank.

I guess my point is games that are based entirely on time constraints like Rorona just aren't my thing, and after playing the awesome earlier ateliers, it would be a shame for me to have to quit the series because they took away what was fun for me.

Well, Iris was a strange series that deviated A LOT from the normal GUST formula. Though, the first one was still fairly close to it. They may go back and do another game like that.

I didn't have a problem with the time constraints, but the only thing that makes it so the game is 'harder' is the lack of a proper newgame+. If you could keep what you made, it would have made newgame+ much better.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Ar Tonelico » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:03 am

In Neptune, just keep pressing L2 in battles on every attack when doing quests. It saves a lot of time.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Tiredman » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:17 am

Hehe, oh I did, my poor left index finger hated me enough to hurt a good deal halfway through the game forcing me to alternate using my middle finger, which was odd.

As for Totori, I hope it isn't as annoying as Rorona. I usually snag any NISA rpg I can get my hands on, but games cost so much nowadays, I think I am going to have to cut back if the games can't give me enough satisfaction to play. In Rorona, my favorite parts are only the story segments, and seeing Rorona's goofy smile when she is the person who gets to pose after a fight. Alchemy is a chore for me, and not fun. I can't take my time and discover all the different types of ingots and cloth I can make without standing a chance to sacrifice my ability to get 3 stars on an assignment, and, if you haven't been able to tell yet, I am the kind of person who likes to get everything he can out of a game the first time through, and let the game's merits decide if it warrants another play through in a few months.

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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Obake » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:25 pm

vampko wrote:
Obake wrote:I don't really see how it helps replay value, I'd attribute that to the multitude of endings.

I don't have anything against the time limits though. They're never particularly constricting, but they do give you something to use your brain to work against. Makes the game a bit more engaging in my opinion.

It helps replay value, because, you can't do everything your first playthrough. And every playthrough can be time spent differently. It's much like a 'choices' system that changes how the story progresses. Basically, unless you are somehow able to replicate what you did, no two playthroughs will be alike. Making it a different experience every time. Just, it would be nice if you could skip the main story scenes. Would have made doing more than one playthrough a LOT easier.

I suppose I can see that. My thinking is that you are replaying it for a different ending, so naturally you spend your time differently. A consequence of the changed goal, rather than the time limits. Completely agreed on skipping the story scenes though! Got very old by the 4th and 5th playthrough.

Tiredman wrote:When I play an rpg, I expect to be able to play it, not be forced into a timer. That was one thing I didn't like about Neptune too, the timer's for dungeons, as it made things too rushed for my taste, because I just couldn't ignore the clock. Dungeons were boring, but the annoying clock made me do some dungeons over, boring ones, just to get an S rank.

I guess my point is games that are based entirely on time constraints like Rorona just aren't my thing, and after playing the awesome earlier ateliers, it would be a shame for me to have to quit the series because they took away what was fun for me.

Timers certainly aren't good for every game, or for every player. I agree it didn't work well in Neptunia, where every second counts. I respect that you didn't like them in Rorona either, but I thought they worked fine. The limits are there, but there's no rush. More like "I need to pay this bill sometime this month" rather than "I need to hurry up and get out of the way of this oncoming car."
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Tiredman » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:08 pm

To be honest, other than story telling, I don't think this series has evolved since Atelier Iris 1. It is still my favorite for gameplay. Two and three dumbed down the alchemy. One of my biggest gripes with rpg's nowadays is that too many companies try to change up a winning formula too much. Tale of games should be plenty proof enough that if you make a single, good gameplay game, it can stand on its own merits, yet everybody changes everything that is fun in most of their games to try new, usually boring or just bad, idea's.

I can agree that this serie's if moving away from me in terms of gameplay, and I am sad about that. I hope Totori minimized the time component, if not do away with it entirely, because I think it will hurt the company more than help them if they stick to that on consoles.

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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby SakiChan » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:20 am

Tiredman wrote:To be honest, other than story telling, I don't think this series has evolved since Atelier Iris 1. It is still my favorite for gameplay. Two and three dumbed down the alchemy. One of my biggest gripes with rpg's nowadays is that too many companies try to change up a winning formula too much. Tale of games should be plenty proof enough that if you make a single, good gameplay game, it can stand on its own merits, yet everybody changes everything that is fun in most of their games to try new, usually boring or just bad, idea's.

I can agree that this serie's if moving away from me in terms of gameplay, and I am sad about that. I hope Totori minimized the time component, if not do away with it entirely, because I think it will hurt the company more than help them if they stick to that on consoles.

Comparing Rorona/Totori to the Iris + Mana-Khemia 'series' isn't that much of a good 'idea'. Why? 'cause Rorona/Totori go more on the way of the traditional Atelier Series games.(aka. those way before Iris/MK)
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby vampko » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:43 am

SakiChan wrote:
Tiredman wrote:To be honest, other than story telling, I don't think this series has evolved since Atelier Iris 1. It is still my favorite for gameplay. Two and three dumbed down the alchemy. One of my biggest gripes with rpg's nowadays is that too many companies try to change up a winning formula too much. Tale of games should be plenty proof enough that if you make a single, good gameplay game, it can stand on its own merits, yet everybody changes everything that is fun in most of their games to try new, usually boring or just bad, idea's.

I can agree that this serie's if moving away from me in terms of gameplay, and I am sad about that. I hope Totori minimized the time component, if not do away with it entirely, because I think it will hurt the company more than help them if they stick to that on consoles.

Comparing Rorona/Totori to the Iris + Mana-Khemia 'series' isn't that much of a good 'idea'. Why? 'cause Rorona/Totori go more on the way of the traditional Atelier Series games.(aka. those way before Iris/MK)

Well, Atelier Iris 1 is pretty close to the original Atelier formula. It was mainly because you had a male main, and there was a strongish emphasis on combat that it deviated a bunch. Still, it had a great alchemy system, lots of emphasis on gathering, and dating sim elements, along with involving story with the shopkeepers. But, the main plot was nothing like an Atelier game.

@Tiredman
I hope they keep with the time component, it makes things interesting ~

Also, if they made it so you could keep everything on newgame+ would that make it better for you? I'm not saying any of the Arland series does, but that would certainly make a second playthrough more like what you want. Where time isn't such a constraint, because you already have recipes/ingredients/levels to deal with stuff as you see fit.

I really think Iris and MK, were games they put out to try and grow their fanbase, while slowly getting them more used to the ways of an Atelier game. Like how the third Iris game was also heavily steeped in time management, and both the Mana Khemias also heavily used this concept, along with bringing in the dating sim elements, and a very involved alchemy system.
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby Tiredman » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Ok, let me rephrase, I hope they do away with the time component on the alchemy part of it, or at least not make stuff take 1 to 3 days to make. I want the exploring to be what takes time, not every single action. Oh, and dungeons that take 7 days to get to are no fun.

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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby SakiChan » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:05 pm

Tiredman wrote:Ok, let me rephrase, I hope they do away with the time component on the alchemy part of it, or at least not make stuff take 1 to 3 days to make. I want the exploring to be what takes time, not every single action. Oh, and dungeons that take 7 days to get to are no fun.

I see then somebody didn't play Atelier Annie at all ,eh?
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Re: Hope totori isn't like rorona

Postby vampko » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm

SakiChan wrote:
Tiredman wrote:Ok, let me rephrase, I hope they do away with the time component on the alchemy part of it, or at least not make stuff take 1 to 3 days to make. I want the exploring to be what takes time, not every single action. Oh, and dungeons that take 7 days to get to are no fun.

I see then somebody didn't play Atelier Annie at all ,eh?

That was already fairly well established by them. They got into it for The Iris and MK series it seems.
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