Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

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Majin3
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby Majin3 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:18 pm

Hi, guys.
Just registered to answer this question, heh.

The japanese version is 22,9 GB (the voices being 1,7 GB, maybe even more because of movies or whatever) while a single-layered Blu-ray is 23,3 GB.
So yes, memory (as in remaining free space) is a problem. At this point I even wonder how they want to put a part of the english voices on the disc (unless I'm mistaken somewhere and PS3 games use dual-layered discs or something...)

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby vampko » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:57 pm

Majin3 wrote:Hi, guys.
Just registered to answer this question, heh.

The japanese version is 22,9 GB (the voices being 1,7 GB, maybe even more because of movies or whatever) while a single-layered Blu-ray is 23,3 GB.
So yes, memory (as in remaining free space) is a problem. At this point I even wonder how they want to put a part of the english voices on the disc (unless I'm mistaken somewhere and PS3 games use dual-layered discs or something...)

A blu-ray is about 25 GB actually. And I'm surprised the game uses up that much space. Where did you get this information from?
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby Hero » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:50 pm

vampko wrote:A blu-ray is about 25 GB actually. And I'm surprised the game uses up that much space. Where did you get this information from?

no, he's right. the disc may be 25GB but the entire disc doesn't get used. some of it is reserved.

anyway, according to NISA themselves, the US version is about 23GB.

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/artonelico ... o3int.html

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby vampko » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:57 pm

Hero wrote:
vampko wrote:A blu-ray is about 25 GB actually. And I'm surprised the game uses up that much space. Where did you get this information from?

no, he's right. the disc may be 25GB but the entire disc doesn't get used. some of it is reserved.

anyway, according to NISA themselves, the US version is about 23GB.

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/artonelico ... o3int.html

Well then, looks like the Blu-ray isn't enough to support full dual audio-anymore (less they go dual-layer), I'm happy they maintained the full JP track. Hopefully they won't have to make these kinds of decisions in the future.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby ramsus » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:18 pm

It's not about RAM or programming or how much stuff you can squeeze in a Blue-ray disk, it's about money...

The cost for a game development involves the size of your game; bigger the size = bigger the cost. Not only they do the translation, but the word count has to stay under the cap (limit set depending on how much money they're willing to invest in), therefore some lines will be modified/reduced, since japanese to english translation is never shorter but usually longer in sentence length = less voices in english. Which is also why if you do understand japanese, the japanese voice acting usually is different from what you read in the english subtitles.

However, it's more of a money issue, not really technical.

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby magusgs » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:20 am

ramsus wrote:The cost for a game development involves the size of your game; bigger the size = bigger the cost. Not only they do the translation, but the word count has to stay under the cap (limit set depending on how much money they're willing to invest in), therefore some lines will be modified/reduced, since japanese to english translation is never shorter but usually longer in sentence length = less voices in english. Which is also why if you do understand japanese, the japanese voice acting usually is different from what you read in the english subtitles.

Yes, voice overs are charged by the line. But that's not why lines are "modified/reduced". That happens due to lip synching issues. This is the essential reason why a dub translation will always be inferior to a sub translation (assuming lip synching is required)--you're forced to prioritize a translation that can be lip synched over one that might convey the meaning better. Since translation, as you say, generally results in script expansion, lip synching requires trimming the dialogue back down.

As for bluray size: http://www.discturnkey.com/faq-7_sw.asp
3. How much data will 25GB Blu-ray disc actually hold?
The disc manufacturers' definition of GB is 1,000,000,000 bytes (SI) but most computer operating systems including Windows use the 1,073,741,824 byte definition so the actual capacity available to the operating system will be 23.3GB.


So apparently added voices really are hitting against a storage cap (I imagine going dual layered would increase disc printing costs significantly). I wonder what changes they made to fit the English voices in. They must've changed something to fit half of 1.7GB (850MB) into 400MB. Maybe they simply compressed files. The game requires a 4.7GB install, after all.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby vampko » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:56 am

Well, Trinity Universe/Neptunia actually don't have a problem with lip synching at all. Because they have a program which lip synchs to what's said. And it can follow English as well.

But it does really look like everyone was wrong, and they fit as much as they could on it.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby Majin3 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:20 am

Yes, it's called BD25 while there's actually just 23,3GB usable because of the stupid byte conversion most companies use.

@vampko: Feel free to google "psjcl tonelico", that's where you can find the sizes of most games (I'd rather not link there on a forum like this, heh)
That's not where I get my info from but it works too.

As for "looks like the Blu-ray isn't enough to support full dual audio-anymore":
Well, the game has 15,2GB worth of movies and that's a lot.

Tales of Vesperia for example is 8,2GB and Atelier Rorona: The Alchemist of Arland is only 4,0GB, so it's more like a problem for just a few games (don't have the size for Neptunia but according to the above site it's 3,9GB)
Most games wouldn't have a problem with dual, triple or whatever audio.

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby exia » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:01 pm

As long as they didn't remove any japanese audio files in place for the english ones, ill be happy.

One of the reasons I play such niche games is to hear it in the original language, not some sloppy english dub.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby Majin3 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:08 am

@exia: Exactly my opinion. I just hope NIS doesn't lower the quality of the movies or something like that to fit in more of the english dub.

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby vampko » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:11 am

Don't worry so much. They're not gonna lower the quality of the game. They'll find a way to include the English voice track and keep everything in tact.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby Hero » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:58 am

vampko wrote:Don't worry so much. They're not gonna lower the quality of the game. They'll find a way to include the English voice track and keep everything in tact.

just like they did with Ar tonelico 2, right? :lol:

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby magusgs » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:23 am

Someday we'll forgive NISA for botching the AT2 localization. Maybe.
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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby betaflame » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:24 am

Hero wrote:
vampko wrote:Don't worry so much. They're not gonna lower the quality of the game. They'll find a way to include the English voice track and keep everything in tact.

just like they did with Ar tonelico 2, right? :lol:
We already went over this: http://otakuxgamer.com/story/7738/inter ... yuta-sato/

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Re: Will Ar Tonelico III have Japanese voices with Eng subs?

Postby magusgs » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:36 am

I'm assuming Hero is not referring to voices or censorship, which were officially commented on. That doesn't preclude issues which have not received official comment. Compressed video is a valid concern, though premature as it's based completely on conjecture. There could very well be "filler" on the Japanese disc which could be removed without affecting the game experience whatsoever.

In the end, we should just rely on NISA to reasonably deal with technical issues. Still, it makes for interesting speculation.
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