Puella Magi Madoka Magica

[vampko]

I don't really agree with that way of thinking.

It's their choice whether they don't like the ending Bleach. Don't let it get to you so much.

[Seventh]

She isn't selfish, she is caring but hiding it with a cold personality. She isn't despicable, that's just your opinion. If you look at the fan listings, Homura is probably one of the most popular characters in the series.

That's all well and good, but being despicable is something that's opinion based, and she is EXTREMELY selfish - possibly the most selfish character in the entire series. Furthermore, she's caring... to Madoka, yes, but no, she's honestly cold towards other characters - there's no faking there - and even manipulative, all for the sake of Madoka. This is her selfishness: as long as Madoka lives, everyone else can die for all she cares.

That is selfish. Homura was given a great power and, instead of trying to band together and find a way to defeat "the great evil" or whatever (akin to, say, how Rika of Higurashi had to deal with her crap), Homura falls short in that she's so obsessed with Madoka she can only focus on Madoka, never look to the other girls as potential allies in her true cause (only as far as defeating Walpurgis, and only occasionally - otherwise, she herself says they're in the way and that she herself doesn't get rid of them because it would upset Madoka). Homura and her obsession was her own worst enemy, and the fact that never bit her where it hurts is, I think, Madoka's greatest failing.

Not only is she selfish, she's flawed (as all decent characters are), and even mentally disturbed on some levels, I'd argue. And that's great - she had the potential to be a great, flawed character. But the ending blew it big time.

And keep in mind, I don't think I've said she's a BAD character. A detestable character, sure, and a selfish one, but that doesn't make her bad. I'm just not a fan.

[quote="BleachBummer"]I am really getting annoyed on how you can't just drop and accept the ending is how it is and want it your way. Just let it go and understand the ending is how it is and there is nothing you can do or complain about to change it. All writters must come to terms on how they want the series to end, sometimes it remains undesided until the end. As fans, we must learn to accept the way the ending goes even if we don't like it.
Except I'm not trying to change it. Heck, I even said from the beginning that I don't think the movie is going to do anything for my "evil cause" or whatever. I'm just explaining why I believe the ending wasn't good, whereas the rest of the series was. Chill out. :U

[myskaros]

@Seventh: I feel that "selfish" probably isn't the first adjective most people would use to describe Homura. Cold, obsessive, single-minded, those stand out. Selfish? Not so much. Is she selfish? Sure, but I don't that that's a trait that defines her character. Although you could make the argument that it's a subcategory of "obsessive." If I had to label any single character in the series as selfish, I'm probably more likely to pick Sayaka. All my opinion, so it's all awash.

She isn't selfish, she is caring but hiding it with a cold personality. She isn't despicable, that's just your opinion. If you look at the fan listings, Homura is probably one of the most popular characters in the series.

I like how you contradict yourself. You're free to think what you will, that she is (not) selfish or caring. That's still your opinion. Seventh thinks she's despicable. That's his opinion. At some point, either one of you is going to read an argument made by the other and say "Oh, you've convinced me, we are of the same mind now. Woo!" Or, you'll just have to agree to disagree. However, it seems kind of counterproductive to deny someone else's stance as an opinion; it's an argument, that's a given.

And, popularity has nothing to do with how despicable a character is. Ever seen Death Note? Light's the biggest jerkwad in the series, but he's also probably the most popular. Perspective changes everything.

[vampko]

Sayaka's my second favorite character, and I don't like Homura at all. She's mainly popular because people tend to like obsessive characters for some odd reason.

Kyouko's my favorite ~

[BleachBummer]

And, popularity has nothing to do with how despicable a character is. Ever seen Death Note? Light's the biggest jerkwad in the series, but he's also probably the most popular. Perspective changes everything.

I've seen Death Note. And if you think Light is possibly the most popular you obviously haven't been to my High School. Everyone who knew about Death Note hated Light and loved L, especially the girls. Oh god, the amount of L fangirls at my High School was amazing, and one of my friends was by far the biggest L fangirl in exsistance. As in she would stalk him if he were real, and further more (WARNING! This shows how big of a L fangirl she is and will shock you if your not prepared, highlight at your own risk)

Spoiler:

rape him

.

[vampko]

And, popularity has nothing to do with how despicable a character is. Ever seen Death Note? Light's the biggest jerkwad in the series, but he's also probably the most popular. Perspective changes everything.

I've seen Death Note. And if you think Light is possibly the most popular you obviously haven't been to my High School. Everyone who knew about Death Note hated Light and loved L, especially the girls. Oh god, the amount of L fangirls at my High School was amazing, and one of my friends was by far the biggest L fangirl in exsistance. As in she would stalk him if he were real, and further more (WARNING! This shows how big of a L fangirl she is and will shock you if your not prepared, highlight at your own risk)

Spoiler:

rape him

.

Lucky for L he's a fictional character

[myskaros]

I've seen Death Note. And if you think Light is possibly the most popular you obviously haven't been to my High School.

You guessed correctly, I have not been to your high school. Also, I suppose you're right anyway, I forgot all the characters in that series except Light and his shinigami. Did a random Google search on "death note light more popular than l" and, of the 2 results that actually had what I wanted, L was more popular >_>

Regardless, I still stand by my statement of how despicable a character is doesn't correlate with popularity. Nowadays, it's more likely to be based on screen time + "moe levels" than anything else. If Homura was fat or emaciated, or otherwise drawn as "less attractive than the other characters," I doubt she'd be nearly as popular.

[Seventh]

@Seventh: I feel that "selfish" probably isn't the first adjective most people would use to describe Homura. Cold, obsessive, single-minded, those stand out. Selfish? Not so much. Is she selfish? Sure, but I don't that that's a trait that defines her character. Although you could make the argument that it's a subcategory of "obsessive." If I had to label any single character in the series as selfish, I'm probably more likely to pick Sayaka. All my opinion, so it's all awash.

Hmmm, perhaps! I might be inclinded to agree with you, at least on Sayaka, and heck, if it says anything, Sayaka's my favorite character by far.

Of course, we could get into the argument as to whether or not Homura really cared about Madoka or just cared about/was obsessed with the friendship that was given to her, which in turn could toss some selfishness into the pot. Either way, yeah, obsessive and single-minded are the ones to work with.

Truth be told, I'd probably like her a lot more if there had been a cliff-hanger ending or if these flaws of hers had been addressed better, not to mention if more people noticed them, but as that's not the case, well-- Yeah. Still worth it to talk about her I suppose - heck, maybe the movies will help her one way or the other.

... And Bleach, well, fangirls are like that. I'm more partial to Misa, Rem, and... yeah, Light and Ryuk myself, but more because they were interesting characters (and flawed to hell, especially in Light's case) than because they were ~teh evil~. I was pretty fond of Matsuda too, so yeah.

Regardless, I still stand by my statement of how despicable a character is doesn't correlate with popularity. Nowadays, it's more likely to be based on screen time + "moe levels" than anything else. If Homura was fat or emaciated, or otherwise drawn as "less attractive than the other characters," I doubt she'd be nearly as popular.

Well said.

[BleachBummer]

You guessed correctly, I have not been to your high school. Also, I suppose you're right anyway, I forgot all the characters in that series except Light and his shinigami. Did a random Google search on "death note light more popular than l" and, of the 2 results that actually had what I wanted, L was more popular >_>

Regardless, I still stand by my statement of how despicable a character is doesn't correlate with popularity. Nowadays, it's more likely to be based on screen time + "moe levels" than anything else. If Homura was fat or emaciated, or otherwise drawn as "less attractive than the other characters," I doubt she'd be nearly as popular.

I obviously wasn't arguing against you for the popularity comment, I was just making a point that sometime even the most unexpected characters are the most popular. Can't say its the same for Kyubey, majority of the fans hate him and I do to. May he burn in a ball of nuclear fusion created by Okuu (a.k.a. Utsuho Reiuji) like she did in that truely awsome and epic YouTube video I saw.

... And Bleach, well, fangirls are like that. I'm more partial to Misa, Rem, and... yeah, Light and Ryuk myself, but more because they were interesting characters (and flawed to hell, especially in Light's case) than because they were ~teh evil~. I was pretty fond of Matsuda too, so yeah.

I am aware of this, it's just scary how my friend was one of the biggest I've seen so far. Also, even if your still not happy with the ending. Just think of this to make you happy since your, as you say, ~evil~. There is going to be tons of unexpecting little girls wanting to watch Madoka due to the light nature of the U.S. Trailer when they have no idea what is truely in store for them.

Parents, prepare to have screaming little girls if they are going to watch this series.

[LAMV]

Regardless, I still stand by my statement of how despicable a character is doesn't correlate with popularity. Nowadays, it's more likely to be based on screen time + "moe levels" than anything else. If Homura was fat or emaciated, or otherwise drawn as "less attractive than the other characters," I doubt she'd be nearly as popular.

Perhaps the same can be said for all anime characters.

[Seventh]

Pity that about QB. Unless the movie/Kazumi changes his role drastically, I consider him/it extremely misunderstood.

[vampko]

Pity that about QB. Unless the movie/Kazumi changes his role drastically, I consider him/it extremely misunderstood.

It all depends on which side you think is more important to live. both sides are only trying to maintain their existence.

[Seventh]

Well, to me, if you disregard Madoka's asspull at the end (and I tend to), then he's essentially helped humanity evolved to what it is, and then some, at the cost of some life force that goes towards the sustainment of the universe anyway. I could easily make the argument QB is the hero of the series (if not for Madoka's asspull), except the movie might turn his role around completely, not to mention I've got no idea what he's up to in Kazumi yet.

[vampko]

Well, to me, if you disregard Madoka's asspull at the end (and I tend to), then he's essentially helped humanity evolved to what it is, and then some, at the cost of some life force that goes towards the sustainment of the universe anyway. I could easily make the argument QB is the hero of the series (if not for Madoka's asspull), except the movie might turn his role around completely, not to mention I've got no idea what he's up to in Kazumi yet.

Except...he's causing people to kill themselves, to sustain his own world. He's not doing anything to help the universe. They're both being selfish. Both of them just want to live. It's a parisitic relationship. All the whatever they're called are doing, is making sure people don't die off completely, since they're such a great energy force. And humanity would have evolved regardless with or without the Incubators' help. It just sped up things so that they could provide energy for everyone.

To be honest, the whole 'everything was made possible by aliens' is a plot device I find to be weak. And that was one of the weakest points of the show really. I doubt you'll agree, most no one agrees with me on a few points and this is one of them.

[BleachBummer]

Except...he's causing people to kill themselves, to sustain his own world. He's not doing anything to help the universe. They're both being selfish. Both of them just want to live. It's a parisitic relationship. All the whatever they're called are doing, is making sure people don't die off completely, since they're such a great energy force. And humanity would have evolved regardless with or without the Incubators' help. It just sped up things so that they could provide energy for everyone.

To be honest, the whole 'everything was made possible by aliens' is a plot device I find to be weak. And that was one of the weakest points of the show really. I doubt you'll agree, most no one agrees with me on a few points and this is one of them.

Except for me and those who hate Kyubey. Plus may I add he really doesn't care about the human since he is emotionless, not to mention that while he says he doesn't know what "trick" means he let Kyoko get killed before Madoka's wish saying there could possibly be a way to turn Sayaka back from a Witch when he said after that to Homura that is was certainly impossible.

Not to mention there is this from Dram CD 2:

Spoiler:

Madoka naked in the bathtub. Again, audio-fanservice only.
Kyubey trying to convince to an exasperated Madoka that "he" doesn't see himself as male (in human terms) so "he" doesnt understand why "he" isn't allowed to be in the bathroom with a naked Madoka.
Madoka isnt buying it.
Neither are the fans.
Kyoubey: "Madoka, why are you treating me as if I’m a pervert? Even if I see you in the nude, I can’t feel anything!"
Ouch! He also hurt Madoka's pride as a woman.

Yeah... I have no comment here after this.

Also, I've actually looked up what Kyubey did in Kazumi, and I hate him even more for it.

(EDIT: I've never listened to the Dram CD, nor will I probably listen to it, I just got this from a good source. If you don't believe me, go ahead and find the Dram CD and find out for yourself)