Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:27 am

My1xT wrote:
Seventh wrote:
My1xT wrote:and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?
Whether or not the SI has choices doesn't make them not an SI.

I didnt say that an SI is not an SI give a player a lot more chance to relate to an SI, that was the point

@DKK true it's probably a bit hard to relate to some empty SI with literally nothing, and equally hard to relate to one who is too much off from oneself, I give you that and that's where we could use some choices like in PP

@7 and many things like "those games needs/doesnt need one" or similar are imo more subjective than objective, also as I said as the SI s supposed to be oneself unless you dont like noire there's no problem with a bit of relationship between the 2.
bit that's just my opinion


The issue more so lies in the choices themselves. The more personality they show the more like a personality it is.

Instead of just saying something. Like below where I made some fake dialogue to show for example.

Noire wrote: Hurry up and get to work! What kind of an idiot does it take to take an hour to file papers!


secretary wrote: S-Sorry! I'll get back to work!


That kind of line is too bland for a lot of people to care about. A thing that can be done, might be to show some backbone. Like making him talk back about how hard it is to file thousands of papers for a human and throwing in a one liner. One of the reasons I like Dante so much in the DMC series (Reboot not included) is his witty banter and one liners. Aside from his desire to do awesome things just because even if no one is there to see.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Seventh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:57 am

Characters and the concept thereof explicitly tied to the premise and genre of the game are not pointless, as I've explained. The game's setting, genre, and premise are in many ways built as a vehicle to allow these characters to exist and be used, even if they had lacking screentime. The plurality of them is due to the genre, which calls for players to have options, as well as the setting and concept, where it would be a waste to not take advantage of it as this might be its only chance. This is just talking how the game was designed here.

If all you have to say to that is "hurr no lol they're just pointless waifu fodder," especially in a game where Noire is acting as the ultimate "waifu fodder," you aren't going to convincing anyone of anything. You're dead wrong, in fact.

My1xT wrote:@7 and many things like "those games needs/doesnt need one" or similar are imo more subjective than objective, also as I said as the SI s supposed to be oneself unless you dont like noire there's no problem with a bit of relationship between the 2.
bit that's just my opinion
The Secretary adds comparatively little to the main plot of the game. He adds to the subplot of himself and Noire, but in a game that is trying to do so much in as little time as it had, adding that plot at all just doesn't seem like it was a wise decision to me. PP was more devoted to it from what I've gathered and seen and I think it accomplished its goal more as a result.

Also, I see zero logic in why you think people would/wouldn't have a problem with it, and I've already offered many other reasons that have nothing to do with liking Noire.

Regardless, I think this is where I'm going to bow out.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:15 am

And once again, it's not screentime that is the problem. It's what they offer to the situation. Do they possess some special ability that couldn't be filled by another just as much if not better? No. They live for quirks and waifu material. The plot of the game is basically
Spoiler:
Noire proves she's the best to the CPU's. Arfoire rehash tricks her into losing her power. Find generals for nothing more than party members. Then combat Arfoire rehash.
What do the generals offer other than party members? Nothing but being Noire's new quirky friends and a players new waifus.

The Secretary is pretty much this.
Spoiler:
Return some power to Noire through faith. Become Secretary. Help handle requests and paperwork. Throw in some banter that anyone could provide if they liked Noire.


The generals are pretty much the same but replace his work with battle members. And the banter they have is more so to show off their quirk, and why they make for great waifus.

They also are not explictly tied to the premise. The premise could be fufilled easily by the CPU's, which is the help needed to combat the threats. Even throw in some makers. THERE IS SUCH AS THING AS UNNECESSARY OPTIONS. Even in Disgaea, half the party members if not more are just rehashed designs with higher stat potential. How is that taking advantage of multiple neccessary otpions? They offer no option to the plot that couldn't be fulfilled with a smaller cast number. So no. You're dead wrong in telling me they're as neccessary as you claim them to be. They offer no special thing that isn't fulfilled by the secretary other than waifu fodder.

If all you can say is "THEY'RE NECCESSARY TO THE PLOT BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE GAME" then you're absolutely dead last wrong. The battle mechanics do not correlate directly to the plot.

Having options in battle doesn't give them necessity in plot when you have goddesses than may as well be able to do all they do and more.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:36 am

well some of the generals are pretty good for Battle and stuff, like lady Wac with eternal floating (not just 3 turns like the goddesses), warps, absorbing HP from opponents and especially a high magic stat, poona also for her magic stat, most of the goddesses (save Vert) are more centered around physical attacks which is seriously bad in case of an opponent that takes close to no damage from physical or resta as the obvious magic user and healer while others like moru which does physical and a bit of buffingare not completely needed coz there are enough replacements, like Neptune or noire who are also physical, can buff and those 2 can even transform.
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:53 am

My1xT wrote:well some of the generals are pretty good for Battle and stuff, like lady Wac with eternal floating (not just 3 turns like the goddesses), warps, absorbing HP from opponents and especially a high magic stat, poona also for her magic stat, most of the goddesses (save Vert) are more centered around physical attacks which is seriously bad in case of an opponent that takes close to no damage from physical or resta as the obvious magic user and healer while others like moru which does physical and a bit of buffingare not completely needed coz there are enough replacements, like Neptune or noire who are also physical, can buff and those 2 can even transform.


That's the problem though. If they were so necessary, you wouldn't really be able to replace them. And their only neccessary function apparently is in battle. Which even then it's pointless because the can be replaced with the most basic of characters you'd need in a Neptunia game to put it in the franchise.

Unless they were planning to actually write well for the original characters and make them all work well with the plot's necessities, while giving them a valid reason why they are ALL there, and not just some of them used, then they should have just used a smaller cast. Not all of the original characters made were necessary. Waifu's is a big thing about the series. But it's not the plot. The plot has never been "Look at me being a waifu and cute girl". It's always had their own plots to work with that were far more contextual than that.

And IIRC there were 22 new additions. I don't think CH is skilled enough to write 22 more characters than the average large cast comic is when run by a really old professional expert comic writer.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:56 am

no 22 playable (not counting DLC charas) minus the 4 goddesses we have 18 new ones. (plus the secretary)

also you said earlier that the role of the secretary could have been done by "anyone who loves noire" well that's probably a reason why he's so empty, I mean he's literally the representaion of "anyone who loves noire".
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:01 pm

My1xT wrote:no 22 playable (not counting DLC charas) minus the 4 goddesses we have 18 new ones. (plus the secretary)


18 is still too much. Even the average hard to write for comic with large casts, it shouldn't go more than 10 unless it's a justice league comic or some kind of team comic. And even then, per issue it's probably not going to include every member or large number of the team. It worked when the league was only the core team. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Green Lanter, ETC but when it's almost every hero on earth who's in the team, they're going to pace themselves. Something that CH decided to say fuck it to. They pretty much thought they could handle something that even Stan Lee with a team of 7 writers wouldn't bother with unless he was drunk.

Not only does it go and bring in useless additions to the plot progression, it just makes it inconsistent when comic have that many. And regardless of the medium, if it has plot, it's guilty and applicable to the tool used to make a plot. Writing. And when you try to write too much in one issue or game, it loses some value when you happen to fuck up.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:11 pm

DragonKingKaiser wrote:
My1xT wrote:no 22 playable (not counting DLC charas) minus the 4 goddesses we have 18 new ones. (plus the secretary)


18 is still too much.


I didnt say that wasnt the case, I was just correcting the number...
also we have in the new chara list tiara and sting from the DLC which drives the list a bit up again
also 14 charas all-in-all should be enough 7 with physical focus and 7 with magic focus, in there some with a stronger focus and some with a lighter focus, 7 coz 7 is iirc the largest team size you can ever get in this game and this isnt pokemon where there are 18 types and such stuff to consider.

probably another reason than just stupid waifu-thinking is the plain greed I mean look at the DLC list you have more than 30€ of DLC here in Germany that's almost the whole price of a standard edition (40€) with 22€ of that being only for the chara equips.
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:24 pm

My1xT wrote:
DragonKingKaiser wrote:
My1xT wrote:no 22 playable (not counting DLC charas) minus the 4 goddesses we have 18 new ones. (plus the secretary)


18 is still too much.


I didnt say that wasnt the case, I was just correcting the number...
also we have in the new chara list tiara and sting from the DLC which drives the list a bit up again
also 14 charas all-in-all should be enough 7 with physical focus and 7 with magic focus, in there some with a stronger focus and some with a lighter focus, 7 coz 7 is iirc the largest team size you can ever get in this game and this isnt pokemon where there are 18 types and such stuff to consider.

probably another reason than just stupid waifu-thinking is the plain greed I mean look at the DLC list you have more than 30€ of DLC here in Germany that's almost the whole price of a standard edition (40€) with 22€ of that being only for the chara equips.


That's a lot of money.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:28 pm

and the money grows even more when you got the LE, including shipping I paid 58 pounds, roughly 80€ while the US ppl paid 58 DOLLARS (~51€ as of now) and have FREE shipping, I call UNFAIR!
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:52 pm

My1xT wrote:and the money grows even more when you got the LE, including shipping I paid 58 pounds, roughly 80€ while the US ppl paid 58 DOLLARS (~51€ as of now) and have FREE shipping, I call UNFAIR!

Damn. How much more is it with shipping? Also what's 58 pounds in dollars?
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:01 pm

58 pounds are 90$ and that is with shipping and everything.
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:31 pm

My1xT wrote:58 pounds are 90$ and that is with shipping and everything.


That's a lot of fucking money for a game and a few things to go with it. That's not as bad as what I heard the DMC Reboot definitive Edition would cost. 80 bucks for a game.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:51 pm

but it's frickin* unfair that the US pay 58$ and have free shipping while we europeans pay 50 pounds (77$) AND have to pay shipping on top
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:09 pm

My1xT wrote:but it's frickin* unfair that the US pay 58$ and have free shipping while we europeans pay 50 pounds (77$) AND have to pay shipping on top


Imagine having to pay 58 pounds for just a game though with a few added features that were cut. Look on the bright side. Least it's not a DMC Definitive Edition. 90 dollars though is pretty expensive if that's with the shipping. If not, then you're having to pay even more than 58.
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