CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

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Seventh
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:33 am

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:I'll admit I did like the suggestive comments that only rattled her cage, but didn't care for the scene where she effectively mind broke Noire. And yeah, Nepgear was being a bit stupid, but she'd already lost in their fight. There wasn't a need to do anything more other than to humiliate her.

The first one I just took as straight slapstick (akin to someone getting hit with a hammer in Looney Toons, for example), honestly - though that does get back to subjective humor and all. Outside of the immediate scenes, there's nothing in the game after that implied to me she did anything genuinely traumatic there - after that, Noire returned to acting pretty much the same way she'd already been around Plutia, though how she'd already been acting was still in line with the joke they were running with. As for that bit, though, they needed to get Noire moving, they were really attached to their gag, so they figured why not go all the way with it.

As for the Nepgear thing, I'm of the mind that's all she really did - tease her and such. If you're going off the "I'm ruined for marriage!" line as a basis for something sinister happening, like I've said when it's been brought up before, keep in mind characters in Japanese media say that over veeeery small things (comparatively) sometimes. We're talking another character having seen their underwear, getting accidentally groped by the token accidental falling over and colliding with the harem lead, or even just seeing some stomach if they're a more conservative sorta person, which... honestly, Nepgear kind of is, meaning she could've been saying it over something comparatively minor despite when the line "implies." Even guys will say it sometimes. :lol:

Plus, considering everyone, including Nepgear's sister, was right there, I really don't think Iris did anything truly terrible. The Noire scene definitely has room for argument, but this one I really don't think so. For one thing, this just... isn't that kind of series. I suspect if some of the scenes in question had been animated or shown, rather than implied, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Noire one aside, at least, but that was, well, yeah.

Rednal wrote:*Still had a different interpretation* XD

Of course, I like the characters, but don't take any scenes where they're made fun of seriously. Goodness knows that I poke fun at everyone in my comics... and since this WAS based on the Console Wars, it actually feels like it makes more sense if they're ribbing each other.

Yeah, I've got mine too, but I don't think it'd add anything here bringing it up. :lol: When you talk about interpretation, it's tough since to both parties, what they've come out with is "fact" and in the end, chances are no minds will be changed when all is said and done. That's not to say there's anything wrong with some healthy discussion, but like when you see people talking whether there is girl/girl subtext or not in the games, it's a conversation that often just ends up wasting the time of everyone involved.

But yeah, I do think a lot of scenes in this series, V in particular, just aren't meant to be taken seriously beyond the laugh they're supposed to deliver in that moment. Though RB1 didn't have any controversial stuff like Iris, there are definitely scenes like that all over.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:59 am

For Nepgear, it was more about the physical injuries sustained. The "I can't walk straight" bit. I probably read too deeply into things, but that's how I see it.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby ivanchu77 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:22 am

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:I can't see a tsundere being a masochist. "It's not like I want you to gag and whip me or anything!" :lol:


Oh, but there´s tsundere masochists already, that archetype is nothing new or inusual, Finnel (AT3) would a be a good example

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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby vampko » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:30 am

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:I never saw her seeking out abuse in the way Tekken does. Masochists like the shame associated with their lifestyle, and Noire doesn't seem like that kind of girl. Her interactions with Anonydeath tells me that.

You're acting like Masochists will enjoy when just anyone abuses them. Also, you're kinda one-dimensionalizing masochists.
TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:For Nepgear, it was more about the physical injuries sustained. The "I can't walk straight" bit. I probably read too deeply into things, but that's how I see it.

I need to one day check that line with the Japanese (I don't have my copy anymore to check it though), because it could have just been NISAizing. I have the feeling when that scene was happening, I heard something much different than what I read. BUT, do not take that as fact. Definitely need to fact-check that before jumping to conclusions.
Seventh wrote:after that, Noire returned to acting pretty much the same way she'd already been around Plutia

Implying that she started to realize that she enjoyed it, if only a bit. Or maybe just, after looking back, thought it wasn't that bad. But, being a Tsundere masochist, she can't be outright and say that.

Seventh wrote:Plus, considering everyone, including Nepgear's sister, was right there,

Because Nep had shown such loving care towards her sister who had saved her from a fate worse than death...right? By ignoring her and throwing her to the side at every moment once she got into the shiny new world, of course ;)
Noire's already shown that she doesn't even bother to stop Plutia when she's on a rampage. Blanc hasn't really been seen either way. Vert was probably just happy to not be a part of it. NOT TO MENTION, they all have shown that they were afraid of Plutia when she's in HDD mode, calling her "unstoppable" and basically treating her like some sort of invincible being.
This argument doesn't hold a lot of water once you take into account all the points I and Defender brought up...
But, I do agree that Gear deserved it to an extent, so, however horrible it may have been/not been, it's not really a huge draw against Plutia.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:02 am

vampko wrote:Implying that she started to realize that she enjoyed it, if only a bit. Or maybe just, after looking back, thought it wasn't that bad. But, being a Tsundere masochist, she can't be outright and say that.
Or that the scene was just meant purely for comedy. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't - my point is simply that there were no noticeable lasting effects, and given how the scene was written, it didn't really seem to be meant as anything more than a momentary gag. A lot of scenes in this series just aren't meant to have that kind of meaning - it's not like the RB1 cast is really aware of the Conquest Ending or MK2, but for a gag, they can break the fourth wall for a minute and joke about it. That's just how it goes.

vampko wrote:Nepgear stuff

This just gets into interpretation again. For starters, I didn't that extreme of an impression out of Neptune in V, and in that scene in particular, she was Purple Heart at the time and not showing any signs of the usual "oh no Plutia!" fear that I could see. Just "it'll do Nepgear some good," more or less. If we take the line Defender mentioned into account, it sounds to me like Iris just turned Nepgear over her knee and gave her a spanking like a kid who had done something wrong more than anything... which, technically, she was.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:20 am

vampko wrote:You're acting like Masochists will enjoy when just anyone abuses them. Also, you're kinda one-dimensionalizing masochists.

They're presented in the one-dimensional space that all the archetypes are given. I never saw any instance of Noire enjoying any of the treatment she got, the only emotion I ever saw out of her was fear. I'll disregard the Japanese script because even if I leave work right now, go home and play through the scene again, I wouldn't understand it. I can only go by what evidence I've been presented with in a format I understand*.
The Nepgear scene may have been a NISA moment, but same thing applies. I can't accept bad things happening to good people. And given that Neptune abandoned her the entirety of the game, her actions are at least reasonably plausible. Another girl has offered to give her the big sister affection she wants. Her siding with Vert makes more sense.



*I won't trust interpretations of others as they're prone to bias. The only point of view I trust 100% of the time is my own.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:28 am

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:I won't trust interpretations of others as they're prone to bias. The only point of view I trust 100% of the time is my own.
Sorta said something similar a few posts up, but yup. In the end, what we'll trust the most is what we got out of it. It might say something to the way they tell these things, with the whole visual novel style and all, that interpretations can vary so much, but that's a totally different discussion.

Kinda funny how we're talking more about Plutia getting higher than anything else on here. I'm honestly much more surprised at the surge in Blanc popularity and IF taking second than anything else.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:51 am

Well, the results definitely aren't accurate. I and tons of other people cheated the vote system. Maybe everyone wanted a chuuni battle harem, but that's kind of unlikely. :lol:
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby vampko » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:51 pm

Seventh wrote: - my point is simply that there were no noticeable lasting effects,

Personally, it seemed to me like Noire was more affectionate towards Plutia after that. Which further illustrates my point.
I didn't come to these conclusions over one single scene. It's the entire game as a whole that brought me to this.
Seventh wrote:- it's not like the RB1 cast is really aware of the Conquest Ending or MK2, but for a gag, they can break the fourth wall for a minute and joke about it.

I feel like you're going to an extreme, where nothing can have any other meaning than "oh it was just a gag". I thought it was more a foreshadowing of things.
Seventh wrote:For starters, I didn't that extreme of an impression out of Neptune in V, and in that scene in particular, she was Purple Heart at the time and not showing any signs of the usual "oh no Plutia!" fear that I could see. Just "it'll do Nepgear some good," more or less.

All the more reason that Neptune's kinda a jerk. Since she caused the situation in the first place. Like, i will gladly argue good things about Plutia, but Nep....she just really did not behave nicely in Victory.
TheDefenderOfEarth wrote: I'll disregard the Japanese script

this is going to be a reason we'll likely never see eye to eye on things. Not because you're doing the sensible thing of not trying to argue about what you don't understand, but because that's what I saw and what left an impression on me. the English script I even tended to just not read at times. Though, some of the old style of the script from before when I was much less versed in Japanese (IE the first game, and Mk2 to an extent, mainly because I played through it so much and switched between voice tracks a lot) is still ingrained in me. Victory though, I had the least exposure to the English script, so scenes there are going to be rather different than what yourself or Seventh know.
Seventh wrote:I'm honestly much more surprised at the surge in Blanc popularity and IF taking second than anything else.

I don't really care much about Blanc, so I have little to say about her. IF winning is a pretty big surprise, but, outside some people grumbling that Iffy showed a childish side on top of her mature side, people generally took to Iffy quite well throughout.
TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:Maybe everyone wanted a chuuni battle harem

If Iffy was the harem lead....my gosh that would be amazing :o
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:13 pm

vampko wrote:I feel like you're going to an extreme, where nothing can have any other meaning than "oh it was just a gag". I thought it was more a foreshadowing of things.
Well now you're just putting words in my mouth. We're talking about a specific type of scene and some specific scenes of that type on top of that, which isn't even close to "nothing have have any other meaning that X." Unless you're going to tell me the RB1 cast was aware of the events of MK2 and the Conquest Ending the entire time? Because that would throw a nice wrench in a lot of that game if that's the case.

My point is, before you say "well the Iris scenes weren't fourth wall breaking at all," that sometimes stuff just happens for the sake of a punchline and isn't meant to have any lasting meaning. And no, not all scenes.

vampko wrote:Nepgear and Neptune stuff

Again, we've come out of Victory with very different views on that one, so I think it's best to just let that one be at this point.

vampko wrote:I don't really care much about Blanc, so I have little to say about her.
Well that's surprising. :shock: To each their own, I guess.

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:Well, the results definitely aren't accurate. I and tons of other people cheated the vote system. Maybe everyone wanted a chuuni battle harem, but that's kind of unlikely. :lol:

With a few tweaks, you could theoretically turn Hyperdevotion's premise into something like that probably... :shock:
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:27 pm

vampko wrote:If Iffy was the harem lead....my gosh that would be amazing :o

Idea Factory and Compile Heart can have all my filthy gaijin money for this.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby vampko » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:31 pm

Seventh wrote:Well now you're just putting words in my mouth

I'm not really. I said it's what I feel like. Not what you're saying. It's just because of how often it's used as a defense.
Seventh wrote:" Unless you're going to tell me the RB1 cast was aware of the events of MK2 and the Conquest Ending the entire time?

of course not. 4th wall breaking is 4th wall breaking.

Seventh wrote:Well that's surprising. :shock: To each their own, I guess.

Just because she's got a good body doesn't mean I particularly focus on her. I blame NISA for this one though. They had her just spewing out bad language left and right in the original HDN, and that left a really bad impression on me. Mk2 she was a little better, but the damage had been done. Though, that's a charm point of her for a lot of people it seems.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:08 pm

I love a woman who can kick my ass and talk shit to me.

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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Beedlebud » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:08 pm

So much text on this page

Almost makes me want Re;birth 3 at release so I could figure out wtf y'all are on about
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby ArmedDragoon » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:27 pm

Alright, Rei got in the top 18, I'm cool with that. This sure was one throughoughly ravaged poll, though. First place and second place are seperated by 24k votes, talk about a proxy war.
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