Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby ArmedDragoon » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:06 am

Well, this is as good a place to make a 1000th post as any.

As much as I like Neptunia, I find it hard to disagree with Alice's actual complaints. I've been mocking Compile Heart and complaining about the blatant recycling since the very beginning, which has continued to recently...but to answer the question that the thread itself presents, no, Compile Heart's games don't qualify as shovelware. Nobody who has played actual shovelware would go as far as to say that. Several Compile Heart games with original content have already been named in this very thread, so to go further into that would be pointless.

Let's talk about the content in HDN specifically, though. Every Vita port more or less plays like Victory with some bells and whistles, down to identical map design. On the other hand, you've got Compile Heart trying to experiment with things like an idol sim and an SRPG, things that are harder to use recycled content, and need original content by neccessity. The fact that Compile Heart is comfortable enough with HDN to experiment, despite the occasional complaints the experimenting gets from some fans, shows that they've definitely made progress. Compare what we're getting now to the first Hyperdimension Neptunia, one of the worst games I played on a technecial level this last gen. It's quite the change, huh?
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby Leon Tekashi » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:27 am

I understand where she's coming from with the whole recycling thing, but based on the points she made, she hasn't considered the other parts of the games, hence why lots of people are against her.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby xizro345 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:31 am

To watch what IF used to do before CH days, people should look at Spectral Souls. I believe there's a IOS/Android port around.

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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:35 pm

Leon Tekashi wrote:I understand where she's coming from with the whole recycling thing, but based on the points she made, she hasn't considered the other parts of the games, hence why lots of people are against her.

Some of those points are heavily subjective and divided in what they subjectively view as quality.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby vampko » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:50 pm

ArmedDragoon wrote:Every Vita port more or less plays like Victory with some bells and whistles,

Re;Birth 3 actually plays the LEAST like Victory from what I've seen/heard.

That said, CH, while they do recycle assets to save costs, I really don't consider anywhere near a developer of "shovelware". I may hate some of the games they co-develop, but generally they're providing experiences that I have zero regrets of experiencing, and had a grand time with. Most of the complaints with CH games tend to be with things that are based solely on taste/perspective, like the story. Or the characters. The first game definitely had A LOT of technical issues. But, then there was Mk2, and the technical issues were MUCH fewer than before. And they've improved on the formula more and more with every game. Sometimes they make mistakes, but that's part of learning. They do seem to actually learn from their mistakes, and instead of wiping the slate clean and starting anew (this is ALL referring to stuff outside story/characters/music btw), they improve and work with things. Sometimes they do drop ideas, but they've honed more ideas than dropped. A good example would be the battle system. The original HDN's battle system was fairly different, but they continued tweaking it and working it to make it more enjoyable to a wider audience, instead of just dropping it and trying something totally different.Which we'll see the culmination thus far in Victory II (Which, by the way, is looking pretty snazzy).

And they'll continue to do so with many other things. Does this mean they're a "good" developer? Well, that's really up to the individual to determine. But I would argue that they are not a "bad" developer, at the least.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:53 pm

Seventh wrote:You were saying that long before the conversation came to this, and if Defender has reason to think that, if it isn't you, then shouldn't that tell you maybe you might want to stray from giving people that impression in the first place? You did this all the time before - make comments that went over badly, then blamed everyone else for what you said.

In any case, this thread has long since lost whatever purpose it originally had, if it had one, so I'm gonna stop wasting my time.

It's not that I think those posts are Alice, it's that I know they are. She's slipped up quite a few times, bragging about how she loves to troll Porecomesis on her posts there, how she's nearly banned from here, and the word for word reciting of her complaints in this thread which showed up on the Neptunia General threads mere days before this thread's existence. It's no secret I keep an eagle eye on both forums, and my memory is more than adequate to remember such posts.
I do recall her making a post on this forum asking if "anyone else here post on 4chan?" which she later edited.
Alice Twilight wrote:Also, you can blame Defender for getting a bit too upset over this sensitive topic for derailing it.

Also, I asked a simple question in the OP, pointing out my findings with CH games I played with a follow up asking what CH game has the most original content. That was the point.

The one who brought up 4chan in the first place is you while attempting to denigrate me disregarding your long stale opinions you reiterate ad nauseum; here and on other websites. The whole point of this thread has be nothing more than an outlet for your whining, and when people have proven beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt that you're wrong about essentially everything, you've just taken to insulting them, as is your modus operandi. You haven't taken any interest in rational discussion with anyone regarding any of the perceived faults you have with these games, instead you've just created fabrications to continue your singular complaint, or accused them of things they've never done, like money laundering.

Regardless, this subforum is for the discussion of the Neptunia franchise, not a catch-all for Compile Heart and Idea Factory titles. Had your thread been remotely appropriate to start with and not an obvious bait attempt by a well established troll like yourself, you would have put it in the general games discussion.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby Seventh » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:20 pm

ArmedDragoon wrote:Every Vita port more or less plays like Victory with some bells and whistles, down to identical map design.
Spoiler:
In all fairness, outside of Re;Birth, which arguably makes up for it by having brand new everything else, including other systems that the later Vita games do stuff with, if we're going to say they're ports... Isn't that expected...?

Like, that just seems like an odd complaint to me. If we're calling them remakes, then yeah, I'm with you, and I was really disappointed RB2 didn't do what RB1 did, but if we're talking about a port? I'm not going to get disappointed that Disgaea 3 Vita has the same maps as Disgaea 3 PS3. As a port, that's the whole idea, right? If it's an enhanced port, then okay, it's enhanced, but if dungeons aren't one of the things they're enhancing, is that necessarily an issue? A port is still taking a game from console 1 to console 2, so I would assume the dungeons come along for the ride.

I'm not going to argue whether or not the Vita games' reuse of dungeons is good or bad here, but Alice and you now (to a much lesser extent) are really cutting down on the stuff they added/changed or just ignoring it outright ("Victory with some bells and whistles"). You don't have to like them really, but let's at least recognize they're there, yeah? If the game was designed with those bells and whistles being the focus of what they change and update, is it necessarily fair to criticize them based on things that were never on the table in the first place? What's more, I'm not saying said bells and whistles are really huge, drastic things, but at least it's something.

For example, RB1 gives you the remake system, which is a nice way of having some control over the game, along with some other nifty features and Histoire playable for the first time as DLC. RB2 offers a new ending, that dungeon thing, likely more remake system stuff, and more playable characters. No, maybe the dungeons and enemies aren't changing drastically, but it's not like nothing is happening here. Meanwhile, RB3 apparently has new events scattered throughout, a bunch of characters through DLC, a new scenario towards the end, some new elements added to dungeons with those boxes, the dungeon thing upgraded some more, and so on.

It just seems... A bit shallow, I guess, to look at what the stuff looks like and say there's nothing worthwhile happening as far as gameplay, when in RB2 and RB3, playing them (even if just playing them handheld) was likely more the focus considering they didn't touch the scripts any. Not to mention that, again, they're not the main games. Looking at those, you can pretty clearly see growth from game to game, not to mention what you yourself mention with the other spinoffs going on.

Yeah, they're not of the quality of such and such, but if they're not trying to be and don't have the money to try to attempt to be in the first place, why criticize them for that? That doesn't mean flaws aren't flaws, but understanding the context of why those flaws are there is important if you care about the series and actually want those supposed flaws to ever be addressed.

And don't get me wrong, I'm still really disappointed RB2 and RB3 didn't go the way of RB1 with a total overhaul of the story, but we're not talking about the story so I'm trying to leave that out of this for now. :lol:


TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:It's not that I think those posts are Alice, it's that I know they are. She's slipped up quite a few times, bragging about how she loves to troll Porecomesis on her posts there, how she's nearly banned from here, and the word for word reciting of her complaints in this thread which showed up on the Neptunia General threads mere days before this thread's existence. It's no secret I keep an eagle eye on both forums, and my memory is more than adequate to remember such posts.
I do recall her making a post on this forum asking if "anyone else here post on 4chan?" which she later edited.
Well that's pretty clear cut sounding. I'm still surprised anyone there cares, though I'm still surprised about the opposite, so... :lol: Wait, you said they didn't, never mind.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby Alice Twilight » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:29 pm

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:It's not that I think those posts are Alice, it's that I know they are. She's slipped up quite a few times, bragging about how she loves to troll Porecomesis on her posts there, how she's nearly banned from here, and the word for word reciting of her complaints in this thread which showed up on the Neptunia General threads mere days before this thread's existence. It's no secret I keep an eagle eye on both forums, and my memory is more than adequate to remember such posts.

If I had made this thread a year later you'd probably still be trying to make a connection.
I do recall her making a post on this forum asking if "anyone else here post on 4chan?" which she later edited.

Yeah, I did say that, poor choice of words on my part, I still don't post there, sadly.
Alice Twilight wrote:Also, you can blame Defender for getting a bit too upset over this sensitive topic for derailing it.

Also, I asked a simple question in the OP, pointing out my findings with CH games I played with a follow up asking what CH game has the most original content. That was the point.

The one who brought up 4chan in the first place is you while attempting to denigrate me disregarding your long stale opinions you reiterate ad nauseum; here and on other websites. The whole point of this thread has be nothing more than an outlet for your whining,

I brought it up, sure, because you kept posting 4chan phrases.
And on other websites now? Which would they be? Again, I have every right to complain.
and when people have proven beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt that you're wrong about essentially everything,

How am I wrong about Neptunia games recycling stuff again? What Neptunia games have you been playing? you've just taken to insulting them, as is your modus operandi.
You haven't taken any interest in rational discussion with anyone regarding any of the perceived faults you have with these games, instead you've just created fabrications to continue your multiple complaints, or accused them of things they've never done, like money laundering.

Fix'd

Regardless, this subforum is for the discussion of the Neptunia franchise, not a catch-all for Compile Heart and Idea Factory titles. Had your thread been remotely appropriate to start with and not an obvious bait attempt by a well established troll like yourself, you would have put it in the general games discussion.


This thread belongs here too. You'd have called it bait regardless because you have a problem with me calling the Neptunia games for what they are. Not liking things =/= Trolling
Grow up. Some people have problems with things, like I do with this series. I have every right to express them. This thread would have been moved long ago if it didn't have a place here.

@Seventh

I'll only ever acknowledge Re;Birth1 as an enhanced Victory, that's the only praise I'll give it.
It's still a game that could have been so much more, but it wasn't, a plan system or Celestia doesn't really justify the price I bought it for. Mk2, I look forward to getting is because I can atleast acknowledge it as a straight port with enhancements not trying to be a new game.

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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby lopez » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:10 pm

Alice Twilight wrote:
TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:It's amazing how you still deny the fact despite that 4chan post being from January 9 and you starting this thread January 12. Get some new content already.


It's amazing how you still keep making these claims, with little to no evidence.
Get some new content already.Right back at you.

@Seventh, I have the right to call someone butthurt when some 30 year old guy is going around saying I post on 4chan because I've insulted his video games.


No need for insults. On that note, I'd like all sides to stop with the personal attacks.

Some of you may not like what Alice has to say, but she(?) is allowed to voice her opinion, so long as she doesn't make personal attacks and follows the forum guidelines for posting. If you're tired of reading the same criticisms and such, then don't comment in this thread any more and move on. Both sides have made their opinions heard and either side won't back down, so maybe it's time for everyone to move on. I'll leave this thread open in-case there's something new to comment on and/or someone would like to add their 2 cents, but if this thread continues on as is, then I will have to lock it.
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby NoireRulz » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:17 pm

Joke answer:

>says Neptunia is shovelware
>Noire is in Neptunia

...error.....error....does....not....compute...press F1 to reboot

Serious answer:

No, I personally don't think Neptunia, or any CH stuff, is considered shovelware.

Shovelware is most of the stuff that released on the Nintendo Wii......
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Re: Are Compile Heart games Japanese shovelware? w/ Bonus Q.

Postby lopez » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:27 pm

I locked this at the request of Alice.
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