How would you improve this game?

[Seventh]

No, it wastes resources when not necessary, and not only during boss fights! Example: I set Neptune to cast regen on herself 30% of the time, but she cast it when she was perfectly healthy and during normal battles! Another example is that even though I have all three of them set to cast healing on themselves 100% of the time, when the conditions are met, this does not always occur! They also use the lowest healing spell even though the conditions meant they should have used a stronger one! Also, at level 33, I finally saw Compa revive someone for the FIRST TIME! This is a terrible AI implementation I don't need - I might need regen during boss fights, but only after I know if the boss is so powerful it would kill her otherwise, and that can't occur because the condition parameters are met when? At the beginning of the fight! I'd rather waste a turn making the choice of spending my resources wisely, or maybe even have a "recovery phase" part of each battle segment...

So basically, you don't know how the healing system works/don't understand it/(not to be rude)it's too hard for you, and you don't like it. That's understandable, sure, but that doesn't make it bad - look at how many people are defending it, after all.

And for the record: In Neptunia, the "first" healing skill that's met will happen, so if you want higher ones to happen, you WILL have to turn off the lower ones. Basically, as soon as you get under 30%, that one will hit, even if you're also under 50% and so on. Hope that helps.

How many RPGs restrict your adventuring to dungeons only, and recycled dungeons at that?

See, first of all, a LOT of RPGs are like that. Secondly, if it's still a good level for the boss, or if YOU as a player just can't handle it while other players can, then maybe it's not the game's fault - it might just be yours. Overall, the levels may have been a bit off, but I never had as big a problem that you're describing.

No, fair would be giving the monsters an AP gauge commensurate with their levels.![/quote]
In which case they would likely... kill the shit out of us because they would get to attack so much, given most of the time they use regular attacks as opposed to special ones that use up the AP guage. Even at early levels, we could still attack a good 4 times at least.

The tutorials were in-depth, informative, and well-presented... not so in HDN - they were really bare-bones.

Except for the shares thing, I've been able to get around fairly well without more than that.

It is challenging having only three party members (thinks of FF7 or FF8), but at the same time, it is a blatant carrot on a stick (and slap in the face) if I am given party members which I CAN'T USE because the company wants you to buy them down the road - if I can't use them, then keep them the hell out of my party!

Thing is, we don't know what kind of business went on to get them in there in the first place. Maybe N1/Gust REALLY REALLY wanted them in, but CH/IF didn't because they wanted the three characters only thing, so this was a compromise we had to deal with because Gust/N1 were publishing it. It might have been a "put them in or no money for you" kind of deal.

Honestly, given that they're not REALLY there anyway (they don't get any story scenes once you get them or participate in anything from then on, DLC aside), I don't mind them sitting in the party and us getting free stuff out of it. It'd be another thing all together if they actively were in cutscenes afterwards, sure, but them just sitting there on the menu isn't a huge deal to me when they never had that much of an impact otherwise.

There is no explanation anywhere that this is a different Hanako (not even the character pic), which deceptively gives the impression (like I griped about) that in order to acquire her (original form) you have to buy her. All NISA had to do was state somewhere that this is a future / time-traveling Hanako (like you did) and I would have had no complaint at all.

Nowhere does it say Hanako was taken out (and while it doesn't say she was left IN either, most people would assume she... just was), and Hanako is IN the game from the beginning, even if you've played it for just a few minutes. Lastly, I'm fairly certain the PSN description flat out calls her "Majin Hanako" and uses her profile picture - the same profile picture I'm using myself, which is fairly different looking from Hanako's normal look.

I appreciate setting me straight on the Disgaea 2 (PSP) DLC.

You're welcome! Iiiif I may be so bold as to suggest this, I'd say to nab her if you ever get around to playing. She's a fantastic character gameplay-wise, and from that story segment alone, she's one I really hope gets to star in an actual game someday. Maybe with a Taro from the future too if we're lucky.

[Bishamon-ten]

All I have to say, is I find the game really easy. Maybe it's because I play on hard mode only? I can easily take on dungeons that are higher level than the recommended. And I can take out most monsters in one character turn. And, I'm not sure, but Bisha, it sounds like you don't take advantage of switching the item skills in the middle of combat?

The name is "Bishamon-ten", as in referencing the legendary figure from eastern literature, not like one of those stupid Digital Monsters with "-mon" added to their name.

How the hell do you switch item skills in the middle of combat? Where is that explained in the tutorials or manual? Oh right, it isn't! Yet another useless complication work-around unnecessary in a game which apparently enjoys keeping control out of the player's hand.

You have some valid concerns, but the healing system is just different, and a lot of people are freaking out because of that. People are too used to the usual system. Which is why words like 'unnecessary' come into play. They feel that the way it was was just fine, so most any change is unneeded and therefore a burden.

The following picture says it all.
http://thefuntimesguide.com/images/blogs/Unique_by_krash.jpg
If "a lot of people are freaking out", then apparently they don't like it, nor appreciate it, and would rather be able to do something like, I dunno, fully control their party in battle?

And, about the party, it was mismarketing which messed with this. And, you don't have NIS, NISA, or GUST to blame because of this. IF/Compile Heart made the game. Sega published it. All those others did was get their company name in to make sure it was understood that their company image was being used. They probably had little to no involvement in the process. An example could be Trinity Universe. If you read the artbook, it says that Compile Heart/IF made ALL the characters. NIS and GUST had no hand in it. So, stop blaming unrelated companies please.

Unrelated? Pardon me, but who published this game? Whose name is on the front of all the boxes and materials? Let me see here.... Looks like it says "NIS America" - funny way of spelling SEGA and Compile Heart/IF! Last I knew, NIS America was a branch of NIS (Japan), not another name for SErvice GAmes. If Compile Heart/IF made the game, and SEGA published it, why is there no redirect for THEIR English forums? Oh yeah, that's because the sole responsibility for the game was transferred over when it was licensed and published by NIS AMERICA! If the game has people complaining about it, be it glitches, frame rate issues, or a poorly-designed hands-off item and skill system, then NISA is going to hear about it because they (and the companies who made it) obviously did not perform enough (or any) QA testing to ensure no problems! Apparently the "localization" procedure is getting bad English voice acting, translating text, and slapping their name on everything to whisk it out the door to retail. Reading the dev blog, apparently this was indeed a rush job, and it shows! Once they slapped the name of "NIS America" on it and published it under their name, they became responsible for any issues the customers may have BECAUSE they assumed any and all responsibility once they effectively "bought" the game from Compile Heart, IF, and SEGA.

There is no passing the buck for this: NISA took over all rights (and therefore responsibilities) pertaining to this game, and therefore is obligated to bear the issues that others have when it comes to a poor / cheap design.

[Seventh]

How the hell do you switch item skills in the middle of combat? Where is that explained in the tutorials or manual? Oh right, it isn't! Yet another useless complication work-around unnecessary in a game which apparently enjoys keeping control out of the player's hand.

It may not be explained (or it may have been - the tutorial's text was too small for me to be sure) but you just have to press start. That's all.

it comes to a poor / cheap design.

I still disagree with the idea that "I don't like it" = "poor design", but ah well.

[Ghaleon]

Technically, the game DID say how to set item and combo skills in combat. The method of it is the exact same in combat as out of combat. It never specified that you have to be out of combat while editing them. And lack of control!? What are you smoking, that's MORE control.

Anyway, it sounds to me like you expect/want all RPGs to be like ff7 or chrono trigger or whatever. Not everyone is like this. Now if you think the system is bad or boring I won't argue, your sense of fun is yours alone, but just because a game doesn't meet your preferences, doesn't mean it's bad design or whatever.

As for the nisanresponsibility argument. I'm pretty sure they DON'T have the "rights" to just change the game as they please outside of standard localization duties, though I honestly can say I'm not 100% sure

[Arnold Teddie Rosario]

I love how the ppl who love this game defends it with every inch of their body just because someone says they don't like some things about it.

I guess it can't be helped since this game is a niche title and it's getting slammed heavily by the Reviewers.*Cough* IGN *Cough*

But someone with a different opinion shouldn't bother you too much as long as you still like the game.
And truthfully alot of the stuff Bishamon don't like about the game I'd powerfully agree with him.But I still like it nonetheless I'm given an opportunity to try out new mechanics but still having options to switch back to old school be nice and the game could use more variety on dungeons as well music too and well you'll see what else I wrote earlier in this topic.

All in all it's an ok game though truthfully I'm dissapointed on how it turned out.But eh what can you do?I'll wait for the DLC to come out hopefully tommorow they'll have the newcomers up.

[Seventh]

:lol: I love how the ppl who love this game defends it with every inch of their body just because someone says they don't like some things about it.

It's fine to say you don't like something, but when you're saying something is factually bad or factually poorly designed when it's just different, then you're naturally going to get people to respond.

Not gonna quote, but agreeing with Ghaleon. Well said.

[Bishamon-ten]

I see you want to get personal because apparently you can't continue a logical argument...

So basically, you don't know how the healing system works/don't understand it/(not to be rude)it's too hard for you, and you don't like it. That's understandable, sure, but that doesn't make it bad - look at how many people are defending it, after all.

I understand damn well how the system works. I am saying it is unnecessary to begin with as it seems a lot of people would rather have full control of their characters after having a complete knowledge of the entire battle system! Not everyone wants to have control taken out of their hands for a "streamlined" experience! I've played a lot of JRPGs, but this is one of the worst item usage systems I've seen.

And for the record: In Neptunia, the "first" healing skill that's met will happen, so if you want higher ones to happen, you WILL have to turn off the lower ones. Basically, as soon as you get under 30%, that one will hit, even if you're also under 50% and so on. Hope that helps.

So I now have to micro-manage my item skills usage before every battle? WTF? I (and a lot of others) can do just fine, and a lot better, with a little battle command called "Item".

See, first of all, a LOT of RPGs are like that.

Please name, out of ALL the RPGs EVER MADE for console or home computing, in which you are restricted to dungeon crawling ONLY as your only form of exploration. I know of the Wizardry series, Bard's Tale series, and more recently "Class of Heroes", but in all those you controlled every action of your characters...

Secondly, if it's still a good level for the boss, or if YOU as a player just can't handle it while other players can, then maybe it's not the game's fault - it might just be yours. Overall, the levels may have been a bit off, but I never had as big a problem that you're describing.

Its not my fault you'll settle for anything you can get... I expect at least SOME form of production and knowledge consistency from the ones who made the game!

"No, fair would be giving the monsters an AP gauge commensurate with their levels."
In which case they would likely... kill the shit out of us because they would get to attack so much, given most of the time they use regular attacks as opposed to special ones that use up the AP guage. Even at early levels, we could still attack a good 4 times at least.

Being able to attack 4 times means nothing if, at the same levels, the attacks do little to the monsters who can kill you with one or two hits!

Thing is, we don't know what kind of business went on to get them in there in the first place. Maybe N1/Gust REALLY REALLY wanted them in, but CH/IF didn't because they wanted the three characters only thing, so this was a compromise we had to deal with because Gust/N1 were publishing it. It might have been a "put them in or no money for you" kind of deal.

Honestly, given that they're not REALLY there anyway (they don't get any story scenes once you get them or participate in anything from then on, DLC aside), I don't mind them sitting in the party and us getting free stuff out of it. It'd be another thing all together if they actively were in cutscenes afterwards, sure, but them just sitting there on the menu isn't a huge deal to me when they never had that much of an impact otherwise.

What free stuff? Gust supposedly cuts down on your synth item costs, but what does NISA do? Also, if they are not playable, DON'T PUT THEM IN MY PARTY SCREEN! <-- THAT is my main issue with it, because it equates to "Look at these other unique characters! Aren't they interesting! Hey, they joined your party and you can do stuff with them! Oh wait, they're not available? $5 each, please." I got tired of this BS with Microsoft and XBL. If I can't use them and they serve no real important relative function to the party, then don't dangle them in front of my damn nose!

Nowhere does it say Hanako was taken out (and while it doesn't say she was left IN either, most people would assume she... just was), and Hanako is IN the game from the beginning, even if you've played it for just a few minutes.

I know Hanako is IN the game, but the way it was seemingly portrayed was that she wasn't playable in the normal progression of the game because she was DLC.

Lastly, I'm fairly certain the PSN description flat out calls her "Majin Hanako" and uses her profile picture - the same profile picture I'm using myself, which is fairly different looking from Hanako's normal look.

http://members.cox.net/d2ark/Capture.PNG
Wanna try again? It is her same picture from in-game, and her same description name. No "Witch / Magician Hanako", "Time Traveler Hanako", or even "Future Hanako" - it shows her "little girl" form as seen in the game.

Iiiif I may be so bold as to suggest this, I'd say to nab her if you ever get around to playing.

Didn't I already say I had played it? Also, I refuse to pay for DLC (unless it is a real value that significantly improves or extends the game) after my experiences with the gutting of the online component of Chromehounds (another SEGA-licensed game made by FROM software) and the DRM-crippled "Soldner-X" series on PS3.

[Arnold Teddie Rosario]

NVM Incoming Shitstorm

[Bishamon-ten]

NVM Incoming Shitstorm

You know, in the past I would have agreed with you and been a willing participant. However, to keep this from becoming a flame thread, I will attempt to cease posting unless I find something else in the game which disappoints me, and ask that Seventh also similarly refrain.

My grievances have been aired, but I see that no matter how much I explain the reasons, there will always be a rabid fanboi defending it, so to get this thread back on track this does indeed need to stop before the storm occurs.

Neither of us is going to win if it becomes a war.

[Seventh]

this whole post

Not only was I NOT being personal - at all, but I was being pretty damn fair and logical. You're mad and you don't like it. I get it. But that doesn't warrant a temper tantrum like the one you're throwing, and I'm starting to think you're trolling now.

In any case, I've said what I wanted to, so I'll just wait until you're done and have moved on to another game.

NVM Incoming Shitstorm

You know, in the past I would have agreed with you and been a willing participant. However, to keep this from becoming a flame thread, I will attempt to cease posting unless I find something else in the game which disappoints me, and ask that Seventh also similarly refrain.

My grievances have been aired, but I see that no matter how much I explain the reasons, there will always be a rabid fanboi defending it, so to get this thread back on track this does indeed need to stop before the storm occurs.

Neither of us is going to win if it becomes a war.

Accusing people of being "rabid fanbois", and you're saying I was being personal? Well done indeed, my good man!

Look, I don't think there were any rabid fanbois in here, just one guy who was, well, the extreme opposite of one. It doesn't take three guesses as to who it is either.

I do agree though, let's just move on.

[vampko]

@Bishamon
Sorry for that. I just shorten people's names sometimes. I was well aware it had nothing to do with digimon

That said...blame them for glitches if you want, but they had no control over the gameplay. They only localized it. I don't know where you heard that localization involves changing the gameplay and adding content, but that is not a normal function of localization. The process of localization involves these things : translating, inserting script, dubbing, maybe making some text edits, marketing, and designing the cover/box. oh, and deciding what extras we get. It DOES NOT involve changing the battle system. That's the job of the devs.

That said, I was saying that Sega published it in Japan (although I'm not 100% sure on this). All NISA ever did was bring the game over. They only 'bought' the rights to localize the game. They don't have a team of programmers or modelers, they're just localizers, PR, etc...

And about your spoon picture. The system is not useless. People are just afraid of the change, since pretty much every JRPG ever has used the same system of healing. I'm not saying Neptune's healing system is perfect (far from it), but it's not 'horrible' or 'unnecessary'. It does need a lot of tweaks and whatnot, but it's an experiment, and I'm sure IF/Compile Heart learned from it. They're a developer that is slowly growing, and they make a lot of mistakes, but they're learning from those mistakes. And they're constantly improving.

That said, NISA did an amazing job with the dub actually.

[Seventh]

And about your spoon picture. The system is not useless. People are just afraid of the change, since pretty much every JRPG ever has used the same system of healing. I'm not saying Neptune's healing system is perfect (far from it), but it's not 'horrible' or 'unnecessary'. It does need a lot of tweaks and whatnot, but it's an experiment, and I'm sure IF/Compile Heart learned from it. They're a developer that is slowly growing, and they make a lot of mistakes, but they're learning from those mistakes. And they're constantly improving.

Exactly this. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten killed because I had to take a turn to heal, or just trapped in a circle of "heal -> get attacked to the point I need to heal -> heal again -> so on", and all of these things are things this system punches in the face. It's NOT perfect by any means, but it has its merits and then some, and I for one (and a lot of people on here, once we got used to it) found it quite enjoyable and an interesting new way to go about healing.

[Ghaleon]

This last dispute Seems over so I don't want to say anything that might retrigger it. But I've seen something happen a few times from multiple people that is really kind of cheap and simply untrue.

People who dislike the game and/or think very strongly of a problem within the game often say that the people who disagree, or like the game are blind fanboys oblivious to any potential problem or whatever. It is comments like this that are personal, please try not to do it.

[Arnold Teddie Rosario]

This last dispute Seems over so I don't want to say anything that might retrigger it. But I've seen something happen a few times from multiple people that is really kind of cheap and simply untrue.

People who dislike the game and/or think very strongly of a problem within the game often say that the people who disagree, or like the game are blind fanboys oblivious to any potential problem or whatever. It is comments like this that are personal, please try not to do it.

And ppl who like the game accuses ppl who don't like it as haters.C'mon man ppl chill out.It's just a game.How come something so little can stir up a fight like now?And wasn't there another thread where someone else was complaining about the healing system?

Didn't it get locked?Is this game that MUCH of a big deal that ppl defend it to death and ppl slam it to death?

Sigh it doesn't matter.I already said my part But Bishamon will be back he says.

So next time he's around please calm down ppl.It's just how he feels although him saying Rabid Fanboi was totally uncalled for.

Anyway let's move on......

[Ghaleon]

I didn't get the impression anybody was upset but him though.