*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

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Rating out of 5 on this Chapter:

5 out of 5 - Excellent
13
76%
4 out of 5 - Good
4
24%
3 out of 5 - Alright
0
No votes
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0
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No votes
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:23 am

Wdog-999 wrote:Wait, wasn't part of the reason that Mondo didn't want his secret revealed the fact that if it were revealed, it would expose that Mondo's brother didn't actually get himself killed to save face or something, but that he was killed saving Mondo from that truck. Not to mention the way the secret was worded ("Mondo killed his brother"), that would've fucked some shit up back in the real world if it got out.

Yeah, this was what I was getting at. The weakness was a large part of it, but there was more to it than that. It was really a tragic accident that had warped into a complex for Mondo, but Monokuma was more than happy to twist that around. Mondo didn't really kill his brother, but because of his guilt and how it would look to the outside world, he was manipulated.

As Byakuya said, don't judge other people by how you judge yourself. Or whatever it was. It was a good point, and rang especially true in this case.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby vampko » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:39 pm

Seventh wrote:Yeah, this was what I was getting at. The weakness was a large part of it, but there was more to it than that. It was really a tragic accident that had warped into a complex for Mondo, but Monokuma was more than happy to twist that around. Mondo didn't really kill his brother, but because of his guilt and how it would look to the outside world, he was manipulated.

As Byakuya said, don't judge other people by how you judge yourself. Or whatever it was. It was a good point, and rang especially true in this case.

Well, it doesn't help that Mondo was never likeable throughout for me. Him and Leon were always kinda...yeah

I didn't like them. Also, there's never a good reason to murder. Killing is sometimes something you can't avoid, but murder is never excusable. Ever. It is forgivable though. But, there really wasn't much of any reason to "forgive" Mondo outside of "oh, poor Taka and his brotherly promise/bond thing" :roll:
Likely, even if the secret got out, things'd work out. The whole point is the longer you keep a secret the worse implications that can result from it getting found out.

If I were in that situation, I'd say what it was without hesitation.

Oh, that reminds me, Makoto's not very high on my list either >.>

I think it was a bad idea to go all first-person on this when the MC is so unrelatable. Though, that's something that's not very avoidable I guess...

Ah well. The game is fun. Quite a lot actually. But the story has been pretty lackluster for me, well, up until something I've run into on Chapter 3, but that is something I can't speak of here.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:54 pm

... Yeah, again:

Seventh wrote:As Byakuya said, don't judge other people by how you judge yourself. Or whatever it was. It was a good point, and rang especially true in this case.


Thinking about what you would or wouldn't do is exactly the same mistake Makoto made, and the game makes a point to make this point. Repeatedly, in fact.

You also have no idea what you would do, really. I mean, unless you've been locked in a school before and you aren't telling us? :lol:
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby vampko » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:20 pm

Seventh wrote:... Yeah, again:

Seventh wrote:As Byakuya said, don't judge other people by how you judge yourself. Or whatever it was. It was a good point, and rang especially true in this case.


Thinking about what you would or wouldn't do is exactly the same mistake Makoto made, and the game makes a point to make this point. Repeatedly, in fact.

You also have no idea what you would do, really. I mean, unless you've been locked in a school before and you aren't telling us? :lol:

I have full knowledge of what I would do. I have zero problems with unveiling my "past", since it's just a story that other people tell me. TO BE HONEST
I would likely not even know what the paper was talking about that I was handed. It'd likely be something I already forgot. heck, I'm that sort of person that would probably read it out loud without thinking :lol:

I can't say what I would do in most of these situations, but I can say quite definitely I'd do something like that.

And,

I'm not judging them by how I judge myself. I personally feel that even killing someone is something wrong for me to do. Even in self-defense. That's just how I view murder. And I realize the lines get blurred when you're in a war as well, but, even then, I couldn't kill someone if the President of the United States ordered me to. I couldn't do it if my parents ordered me to. And I couldn't do it if someone had a gun to my head ordering me to. The only way I'd ever kill someone would be by accident.

So, believe me, I'm not holding them to my own standards.

Yet, you didn't really address my problem with the situation at all. You didn't explain anything about what the game did to make you 'forgive" or at least feel like forgiving Mondo for what he did. You just pulled back on a phrase that is more meant to teach Makoto and others to look at things from different perspectives, and not assume that everyone was in the same situation. Makoto's "secret" was a total joke and likely Monokuma did that because he/she realized that Makoto (and probably the others with silly "secrets") would not be taking the situation as seriously and let their guard down, as well as letting that cloud their judgment.

Anyway, the game really didn't do much to make me care for Mondo, outside of feeling sorry for Taka (which I didn't, because a "bond" made in the heat of the moment is just silly. Sure, for Taka it was really serious and meant a lot, but for me it was just a joke) :| At least with Sayaka they made some effort to show how she didn't actually want to pin the murder on Makoto and felt something for him. They also didn't really do anything for Leon. Hopefully for the next murder they'll work on that a little bit more, but I guess it wouldn't matter much, since that may be how they want the story to go.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:35 pm

I purposely didn't talk about this situation because that's more opinion based (whether you like this character and so on and so forth). I could talk about my opinion of the situation, but I don't think that would be productive.

I will say though that you're still doing it - I I I. It's not about what you did or I did, it's about what Mondo did. When you're a gang leader who had a brother sacrifice himself for you and are trapped in a school and all of that other stuff, then you can say what you would do in his situation. Until you've lived someone else's life, though, you can't. You can speak generally, sure, and I think you are (which is my point) - you think you would never kill someone - but that's not applicable to this specific case or any other, just what you would think you would do... which no, you don't know, because you've yet to live it - and hopefully you never do.

When I brought up Byakuya, in any case, I was referring to how you were belittling Mondo/his secret/the situation and talking about what you would do. You're not Mondo, so what you would do is... kind of irrelevant, and the game tries to make this clear repeatedly, starting here. Even if you wouldn't ever kill someone, that doesn't really mean anything if your next door neighbor loves cutting people up. You can try to understand it, say "if it were you" all you want, but it won't get anywhere.

In regards to this specific situation, again, that's just opinions again. I found Mondo to be a compelling and likable character and I found his story quite tragic. He was nice and he was sympathetic, and I don't really see friendship as entirely being a joke, even if it's played for laughs. You disagree, but I'm not going to push that. If you don't like Mondo, in my book, that's your loss - and you might not think so, but that's fine too.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:46 pm

vampko wrote:I have full knowledge of what I would do. I have zero problems with unveiling my "past", since it's just a story that other people tell me. TO BE HONEST
I would likely not even know what the paper was talking about that I was handed. It'd likely be something I already forgot. heck, I'm that sort of person that would probably read it out loud without thinking :lol:

I can't say what I would do in most of these situations, but I can say quite definitely I'd do something like that.

And,

I'm not judging them by how I judge myself. I personally feel that even killing someone is something wrong for me to do. Even in self-defense. That's just how I view murder. And I realize the lines get blurred when you're in a war as well, but, even then, I couldn't kill someone if the President of the United States ordered me to. I couldn't do it if my parents ordered me to. And I couldn't do it if someone had a gun to my head ordering me to. The only way I'd ever kill someone would be by accident.

So, believe me, I'm not holding them to my own standards.

Yet, you didn't really address my problem with the situation at all. You didn't explain anything about what the game did to make you 'forgive" or at least feel like forgiving Mondo for what he did. You just pulled back on a phrase that is more meant to teach Makoto and others to look at things from different perspectives, and not assume that everyone was in the same situation. Makoto's "secret" was a total joke and likely Monokuma did that because he/she realized that Makoto (and probably the others with silly "secrets") would not be taking the situation as seriously and let their guard down, as well as letting that cloud their judgment.

Anyway, the game really didn't do much to make me care for Mondo, outside of feeling sorry for Taka (which I didn't, because a "bond" made in the heat of the moment is just silly. Sure, for Taka it was really serious and meant a lot, but for me it was just a joke) :| At least with Sayaka they made some effort to show how she didn't actually want to pin the murder on Makoto and felt something for him. They also didn't really do anything for Leon. Hopefully for the next murder they'll work on that a little bit more, but I guess it wouldn't matter much, since that may be how they want the story to go.


"Actions speak louder than words." unfortunately (this includes everyone not just you) you can say all sorts of things you might and might not do in that situation but you'd never know unless you actually were put into the same situation as DR cast. When people are pushed back into a corner they become a very different person and this is just one of many things DR points out, in particular with the 1st case.

In regards to your view on murder, well you'd get along just fine with one of the characters in SDR2 that's for sure. And yes Togami's point was telling Naegi to look at things from a different perspective and not everyone thinks the same way as he does.

With Mondo what he did was wrong and there's no denying that, but at the very least he, himself regrets what he has done and believes he needs to atone for it, which is why he willingly accepted his punishment, unlike Leon who was screaming the whole time. That's why I have some respect for Mondo as he is truly sorry for what he did.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:52 pm

Mirai wrote:With Mondo what he did was wrong and there's no denying that, but at the very least he, himself regrets what he has done and believes he needs to atone for it, which is why he willingly accepted his punishment, unlike Leon who was screaming the whole time. That's why I have some respect for Mondo as he is truly sorry for what he did.

I think this is an important point. The person who flips out in denial is Taka - when Mondo was outed, he didn't flip out, he took it like a man. While there's no excusing it, he was still graceful about it all.

On a side-note, keep in mind Leon was kind of the one being attacked there. He was still a jerk, but still.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:02 pm

Seventh wrote:I think this is an important point. The person who flips out in denial is Taka - when Mondo was outed, he didn't flip out, he took it like a man. While there's no excusing it, he was still graceful about it all.

On a side-note, keep in mind Leon was kind of the one being attacked there. He was still a jerk, but still.


Even during the trial when Mondo is accused of being the culprit Ishimaru is the one defending him and in the end Mondo told him to stop it and he accepts he is the culprit.

True Leon was attacked first, however when Maizono ran into the bathroom, he could of ended it there and then gone around to inform everyone what just happened, instead he goes back to his room to get his toolkit and comes back into Naegi's room to unlock the door and kill her. At that point it is no longer self-defense and even Celestia pointed this out to him before he was executed.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:10 pm

Indeed. It was a decent contrast to Leon.

Oh, I know. I probably could have gone into more detail than just "jerk," but I figured it was self-explanatory with him. :lol:
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby vampko » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:24 pm

Seventh wrote:I purposely didn't talk about this situation because that's more opinion based (whether you like this character and so on and so forth). I could talk about my opinion of the situation, but I don't think that would be productive.

No, it's really not opinion-based. I am trying to bring up a discussion of what the game did to make up for what Mondo had done. Because, as i saw it, the game didn't make much effort at all. Which isn't a bad thing, it's just a note of how they're doing their story.
Seventh wrote:I will say though that you're still doing it - I I I. It's not about what you did or I did, it's about what Mondo did. When you're a gang leader who had a brother sacrifice himself for you and are trapped in a school and all of that other stuff, then you can say what you would do in his situation. Until you've lived someone else's life, though, you can't. You can speak generally, sure, and I think you are (which is my point) - you think you would never kill someone - but that's not applicable to this specific case or any other, just what you would think you would do... which no, you don't know, because you've yet to live it - and hopefully you never do.

I would never be a bike gang leader...So that's really moot. You're still concentrating on the wrong thing.
Seventh wrote:When I brought up Byakuya, in any case, I was referring to how you were belittling Mondo/his secret/the situation and talking about what you would do. You're not Mondo, so what you would do is... kind of irrelevant, and the game tries to make this clear repeatedly, starting here. Even if you wouldn't ever kill someone, that doesn't really mean anything if your next door neighbor loves cutting people up. You can try to understand it, say "if it were you" all you want, but it won't get anywhere.

I said that for a reason why I didn't really like Mondo, but that didn't apply to my main point.
Seventh wrote:In regards to this specific situation, again, that's just opinions again. I found Mondo to be a compelling and likable character and I found his story quite tragic. He was nice and he was sympathetic, and I don't really see friendship as entirely being a joke, even if it's played for laughs. You disagree, but I'm not going to push that. If you don't like Mondo, in my book, that's your loss - and you might not think so, but that's fine too.

Yeah, I don't think we'll really agree on that. I've found "manly bonding" to be a silly thing in most cases.

Mirai wrote:"Actions speak louder than words." unfortunately (this includes everyone not just you) you can say all sorts of things you might and might not do in that situation but you'd never know unless you actually were put into the same situation as DR cast. When people are pushed back into a corner they become a very different person and this is just one of many things DR points out, in particular with the 1st case.

I wouldn't magically have a memory, or lose my clumsiness. I've been in a "life/death" situation (in my perspective it was anyway) and my first thought was getting help for the others, and I completely ignored how bad I was. It's not the exact same thing, but it is close. Yes, i couldn't know exactly how I would react, but I have a pretty good idea. I'd probably die the first day, because I'd forget a rule and get shot :lol:
A lot of people don't realize how bad my memory is.
Mirai wrote:In regards to your view on murder, well you'd get along just fine with one of the characters in SDR2 that's for sure.

Woohoo! Can't wait!
Mirai wrote:With Mondo what he did was wrong and there's no denying that, but at the very least he, himself regrets what he has done and believes he needs to atone for it, which is why he willingly accepted his punishment, unlike Leon who was screaming the whole time. That's why I have some respect for Mondo as he is truly sorry for what he did.

this is something which I didn't really think that much about, so I will say that it does seem that the game made some effort to "redeem" Mondo for what he had done. About as much as was made for Sayaka. I wonder if the game will ever go to much further lengths?
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:32 pm

That's why I said it was somewhat opinion based. The game had a few things more than just that (such as his devotion to his friends/promises), which you believe is silly. In that fundamental difference of beliefs, you won't appreciate/accept some of what the game did in fact offer.
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