*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

The ultimate forum for the ultimate fans of the ultimate game series!

Rating out of 5 on this Chapter:

5 out of 5 - Excellent
8
38%
4 out of 5 - Good
8
38%
3 out of 5 - Alright
5
24%
2 out of 5 - Bad
0
No votes
1 out of 5 - Terrible
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 21

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:47 am

vampko wrote:Yeah, it can work, but you generally think of a "moral compass" as someone who leads others in the right direction. Of which he failed miserably.

Not for a lack of trying though. You can't really put that on him.

vampko wrote:I think that was a bit odd. "Fanwork" could have worked fine likely. People know what that is.

Or Fancomic even, or... so many things other than something that explicitly doesn't work with his dialogue.
Image

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:59 am

Seventh wrote:Not for a lack of trying though. You can't really put that on him.

He tried yeah, but 'trying' and 'doing' would be the difference between your average "moral compass" and an "ultimate" one.
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Mirai
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 789
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:03 am

Seventh wrote:Actually, if you think about it, Moral Compass is just a funny way of saying Goody Two Shoes, isn't it?

Always points north = Always points (does) good. Makes sense to me.


And that is why "Moral Compass" isn't completely accurate for him, as he's more than just a guy "who sticks to the school rules like glue." He's also a top-grade student as well who excels in all academic subjects hence his title being "Prefect". The problem I had with Ishimaru personally was he was just a little too naïve considering he was a honors student. We already had Hagakure as the comic relief character, so Ishimaru should been a little more sceptical.
"We've both been rejected by this world, we both feel the same threat. Yet here we are destined to kill each other in the end."

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:06 am

In a way, I question anyone being comic relief here if it conflicts with their supposed skill, as it did with Hiro.
Image

User avatar
Zagryzaec
Loyal Vassal
Loyal Vassal
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:01 am

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Zagryzaec » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:08 am

Actually it does not. We should take in consideration that there is no way to just know who in the world is best at something. School scout people with extraordinary talents and then call them ultimate, not know who is ultimate and then take those.

Most logical way - to get most famous people on the basis of their actual achivments. which show their talent and effort. Like school competition and alike.

For exemplу Junko was taken, because she occupied all magazine covers. Sayaka - because she was at the tops of hitparade in japan. They cirtainly had a talent, but to achive this you have to do much more including unpleasent things which Sayaka mentioned. Hifumi got there because he sold a grand amount of copies of his work. Celeste - because of her fame in underground gambling. She tells that it is just luck - but it is obvious lie - there in no luck in shogi - her actuall talents are in strategical games, lie, manipulation and calculation. Her problems were that there is no mathematical rule in the game of murder. It was a game where she just had no a chance to win - so her luck and ability to lie were pointless. And her ability to manipulate was misused. She took weakest target, but underestimated how stupid can he be, which gives us another hint about her - she only gambled in solo games before.

About compass - it does not lead anywhere - it just shows the right direction. If taka was capable to lead people - he would be called the Ultimate leader. He does what he should, but lack charisma. And he wasn`t swayed by any of the motives monokuma gave. He always did what should be done by moral principles and this is what made him known as the Ultimate moral compass.

Spoiler:
About Hiro - clairvoyant is a myth usually, but he can actually see future - which is proved by his prediction which didn`t have evident premises. His problem is that he is an idiot ruining his percent of true predictions with his wild assumptions, which shows that he has no control over his gift, and uncapable to use it at will or at least discern when it take place. And if in binary sistem of prediction his percent of 30% is strange (becuase a random chance is 50%) in case of infinite possibility of chances a 30% of success with presice predictions is really great achivement.


Either way their titles were given because of their known achivements, not because who they were, even though they did have talents which allowed them to reach those achivements. And yes - for Naegi the only achivement which gives him title ultimate lucky student is lottery, which put the ordinary student into elite school from which every graduated have a guaranteed success. (though later door and alter ego support this title).
Last edited by Zagryzaec on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:32 am

Zagryzaec wrote:Actually it does not. We should take in consideration that there is no way to just know who in the world is best at something. School scout people with extraordinary talents and then call them ultimate, not know who is ultimate and then take those.

Most logical way - to get most famous people on the basis of their actual achivments. which show their talent and effort. Like school competition and alike.

For exemplу Junko was taken, because she occupied all magazine covers. Sayaka - because she was at the tops of hitparade in japan. They cirtainly had a talent, but to achive this you have to do much more including unpleasent things which Sayaka mentioned. Hifumi got there because he sold a grand amount of copies of his work. Celeste - because of her fame in underground gambling. She tells that it is just luck - but it is obvious lie - there in no luck in shogi - her actuall talents are in strategical games, lie, manipulation and calculation. Her problems were that there is no mathematical rule in the game of murder. It was a game where she just had no a chance to win - so her luck and ability to lie were pointless. And her ability to manipulate was misused. She took weakest target, but underestimated how stupid can he be, which gives us another hint about her - she only gambled in solo games before.

About compass - it does not lead anywhere - it just shows the right direction. If taka was capable to lead people - he would be called the Ultimate leader. He does what he should, but lack charisma. And he wasn`t swayed by any of the motives monokuma gave. He always did what should be done by moral principles and this is what made him known as the Ultimate moral compass.

Either way their titles were given because of their known achivements, not because who they were, even though they did have talents which allowed them to reach those achivements. And yes - for Naegi the only achivement which gives him title ultimate lucky student is lottery, which put the ordinary student into elite school from which every graduated have a guaranteed success. (though later door and alter ego support this title).

Your reasoning with Celeste is extremely weak. If she was a "master strategist" then she would have been able to read peoples moves ahead of time and been way more dangerous than she was. But, she did a horrible job of using strategy, and was horrible at acting as well. Everything she did in the trial was just pathetic. If everyone wasn't just letting Makoto solve things for himself, she would have been called out immediately. She showed only a talent for keeping up a poker face in her plot. No manipulation (Yamada was already ready to eat out of her hand before this), strategy, and no calculation. Nothing. Just, "lying". AND EVEN THEN....she was much worse at it than she had shown talent for in the past. I'd sooner believe the luck thing was real than she actually had any strategy. Also, luck can get you out of any situation and win you any game. Luck overthrows strategy, even in a game based on strategy. If you're just making all your moves on a whim, but you're blessed with intense luck, it will seem as if you're "reading the other player". But, in all actuality, you're just picking all the right moves.

About Taka,
I am telling what someone being a "moral compass" implies. Maybe it's different where you live? I dunno, but if I called someone a moral compass, it would be because they led people in the right direction, and it'd be the same for people who live in this area. It doesn't matter what the definition of a "compass" is, that's just how sayings can work.
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
PringlesXD
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 15853
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:12 am
Location: Brazil

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby PringlesXD » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:14 am

Celeste is best girl.

Anyway, I just thought her screw-ups were caused because the plot demanded it.
I mean, there were so many obvious holes when you think about her plan. Almost despairingly so.

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:55 am

PringlesXD wrote:Celeste is best girl.

Anyway, I just thought her screw-ups were caused because the plot demanded it.
I mean, there were so many obvious holes when you think about her plan. Almost despairingly so.

Yeah, I'd agree. Like many others, I expected much more out of her, because of what had gone on prior to this chapter.

But, she wasn't really given a proper case. I'm really curious what I'll think of Chapter 4, as most here seem to be alluding that the mysteries get a lot better from 4 on.
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:12 am

In a way, her screwups might make sense considering her arrogance (she thinks she'll win no matter what), her origin (she's actually an ordinary person deep down), and her "skills" (assuming she really was winning based off luck, how could she ever win against the Ultimate Lucky Student?).

Since these things did happen, while I want to look at them as plot holes, I'd rather look at them as further exploration of these characters. Despite all her posturing and successes, for example, this is still the best Celeste could do.
Image

User avatar
Alice Twilight
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 2017
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:54 am

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Alice Twilight » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:29 pm

Best girls always die.

R.I.P in pieces Celes.

User avatar
Zagryzaec
Loyal Vassal
Loyal Vassal
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:01 am

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Zagryzaec » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:58 pm

First, I'm pretty certain that sentence about Hiro goes beyond Chapter 3.

I reread the text and didn`t find what exactly goes beyond chapter 3. nevertheless I am ready to remove part which you consider as spoiler. As a temporal measure I used spoiler tag to cover it.
Next,
Your reasoning with Celeste is extremely weak. If she was a "master strategist" then she would have been able to read peoples moves ahead of time and been way more dangerous than she was. But, she did a horrible job of using strategy, and was horrible at acting as well. Everything she did in the trial was just pathetic. If everyone wasn't just letting Makoto solve things for himself, she would have been called out immediately. She showed only a talent for keeping up a poker face in her plot. No manipulation (Yamada was already ready to eat out of her hand before this), strategy, and no calculation. Nothing. Just, "lying". AND EVEN THEN....she was much worse at it than she had shown talent for in the past. I'd sooner believe the luck thing was real than she actually had any strategy. Also, luck can get you out of any situation and win you any game. Luck overthrows strategy, even in a game based on strategy. If you're just making all your moves on a whim, but you're blessed with intense luck, it will seem as if you're "reading the other player". But, in all actuality, you're just picking all the right moves.

She tells. that she wins by luck, but it is an obvious lie. There is no way to win by luck in shogi. There is no luck - just strategy and mistakes. She also likes othello - another strategy game. Same goes for professional gambling - victory there is not random, but is determined by a good strategy and calculations(yes poker, yes slots, yes blackjack). And strategy, calculation and lie had to be her talent. The problems with her are not problem of strategy, they are problems of realization of this strategy. Her plan was perfectly planned, but poorly executed. Make right decision and do it is too very different thing. Kill someone is not as difinitive as take a piece. And she is not an ultimate killer. If not some random mistakes - she would be beyond reach, and "I always suspect her" wouldn`t roll in trial.
There was not manipulation, he already ate from her hand
is not an answer - why he eat from her hand IS result of manipulation and it was not enough to make him murder someone (or any other - there was not motive and nobody else was able to make someone an accomplice, taking rules in consideration). I am not yet ready to siriously discuss trial, but all her actions beyond this were within borders of character.
About Taka,
I am telling what someone being a "moral compass" implies. Maybe it's different where you live? I dunno, but if I called someone a moral compass, it would be because they led people in the right direction, and it'd be the same for people who live in this area. It doesn't matter what the definition of a "compass" is, that's just how sayings can work.
I guess we may agree that sayings can work different for different people : ) And don`t forget, that usually he operates with support of school administration.

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:27 am

Zagryzaec wrote:I reread the text and didn`t find what exactly goes beyond chapter 3. nevertheless I am ready to remove part which you consider as spoiler. As a temporal measure I used spoiler tag to cover it.

Thinking back....I think he did make a prediction about not dying at the beginning of chapter 3, so it should be fine. Probably.
Zagryzaec wrote: There is no way to win by luck in shogi

You quite underestimate luck. I don't think this is going to go anywhere though, as you don't seem like you'll budge on this. I don't believe she won entirely on "luck", but that would make what happened easier to swallow. Also, execution of a plan is just as important, and Murder is really no different than any other strategy game. Yeah, there are certain things that are slightly different, but I'd imagine if she went to the underground crime world she would have had experience with murder anyway, and would have been working to trick murderous individuals and very dangerous people. Her lying fell flat on its face, and her planning was really bad. Among other things.
Zagryzaec wrote:is not an answer - why he eat from her hand IS result of manipulation and it was not enough to make him murder someone (or any other - there was not motive and nobody else was able to make someone an accomplice, taking rules in consideration). I am not yet ready to siriously discuss trial, but all her actions beyond this were within borders of character.

he was falling for her before this chapter. Another piece of how Spike Chunsoft likes throwing out clues to the next case way too early. Similar to how they started making a big deal about the pool and the cards in Chapter 2, which made it obvious those were going to be a big part of the case, and made it obvious Chihiro's gender was going to be a key point as well.
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:42 am

I wouldn't say he ever "fell" for her, 3DPD after all. He prefers programs after all. They were foreshadowing a bit with that tea scene though.

As for underground gambling, that was pretty vague I think. While it's true that there could have been murderers involved, I think this case proves that she herself had never been involved with the actual act before herself. Plus "underground" gambling isn't exactly specific - was she just betting on illegal games, like crack baby basketball? Was she taking part in some kind of underground horror show, straight out of Kaiji?

... Or was that just a lie meant to intimidate since, being underground and all, there's no proof and people would believe it since she's known to be a crazy gambler anyway?

Gotta be careful with that one.
Image

iatheia
Loyal Vassal
Loyal Vassal
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:02 pm

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby iatheia » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:20 pm

In regards to Celeste, wold it be accurate to say that her actual talent is neither luck not strategy, but rather intuition?
Because, people keep bringing shogi up as an example, but
Spoiler:
she didn't actually know the rules of how to play, so she couldn't have strategized it.


And as far as the blind luck is concerned,
Spoiler:
going head to head against someone who truly is lucky, she loses, if a certain official art is to be believed.

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:27 pm

She could also be lyyyyyiiiiiing.
Image


Return to “Danganronpa™ + Danganronpa™ 2”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests