neonie wrote: Sleepyprinny99 wrote:
Right...so I tried this before, but me being new and ignorant to forums is awkward...anyway...this is about censorship, particularly with content from Japan...but broadly, about censorship. I dunno, considering the less than pleasant climate by many a fan and countless posts by DS, TDA and others from the company end of things...I just got curious about what others, in the industry and similar positions, have to say.
The article is from Kotaku so I'll let you judge its credibility, but it's a good piece that talks about many perspectives on the issue from the point of view of localization, nevermind ratings boards.
Some views are similar to what NISA has said time and again.
Some views are in line with what many a fan assumes is the case about the industry, or at least an opinion from from those working in it currently.
...In short, not simple a subject here...but overall I think the piece does a decent job going over some of the most common issues here so I'd still encourage giving it a read....context is important, right?
Plus, the article ends with calling fir more upfront communication /discourse on changes made to content and why. Something Atlus has done and NISA is doing now...but not enough by the industry as a whole.http://kotaku.com/from-japan-with-chang ... 1747960323
(NOTE: I'm also keenly aware of a trends towards confirmation bias, but I still think this is worth talking about and sharing, plus recent trends in gaming localization do worry me a bit, and while I myself am against censorship...I can acknowledge its necessity at times. A tough issue here since where and when, nevermind *if it's okay is largely the crux of alot of these debates)
So, I actually have a few thoughts here. Let's play a game and see just how concise I can keep them.
-The title of that article really kind of says everything you need to know about both Patrick Klepek and Austin Walker, in order to understand where this article is coming from. If you've followed them in on Giant Bomb over the years, (Which I have.) You know exactly what I'm talking about. Not censorship, "Censorship."
Which brings to mind two Austin Walker quotes from the past year or so. Neither of these are from Patrick him self, but these two individuals share a very similar mindset and viewpoint, going off of their words. So without further adieu:
1. "It's not censorship!"
The prevailing idea in that, "Social." Censorship does not exist at all. They don't believe in censorship born out of culture or out societal pressure or up-bringing. They have both stood by the idea that, "Real." Censorship is done by the government, and we shouldn't, "Sully." The word censorship by using it to refer to these, "Petty." instances of, "Editing." when brought over in localization.
2. "I'm trying to be more open minded towards closed minded people like you!"
This line was said sarcastically, and in jest, but boy does it sum up precisely the entire crux of the social justice mindset. Which is basically, "I've already decided you're a closed minded person before this conversation has even began, and so know I am in the moral right, no matter what."
There is no such thing as a, "Moral Right."
-I've said all this to make this point: Patrick Klepek also made a video a few months ago when he made that article . I believe that they were meant to be a compliment to each other. You can go look for it on Youtube, if you desire. I don't really want to link to it. Both he and Austin try to appear to be neutral on video game censorship, but in reality they are not.
-Finally, while I can take a step back, and, in the very rare case where it is actually necessary, see the reason for censoring a game. (Criminal Girls being one of the only examples, that I can actually think of.) 90% of the time, I don't believe it is actually "Necessary."
Moralistic, Cultural, Societal, and other such nonsensical, nanny esq, "Think of the children, how dare you allow the camera be tilted to see this girls panties." Style of editing games, will never, ever
, be ok in my eyes, and is nothing more than an insult to my intelligence as a grown adult with the ability to reason and form my own judgement and opinion on things my self.
"You will not go blind, for you already are."
Thanks for the insight here. Just what I'm looking for in a good response.
To be clear...I agree on your views on censorship as a whole.
I'm of the mind morality should NEVER be a factor in the localization process. To put it another way, the only concern relevant to the process and decisions are those in line with what's ethically responsible as both a business and where localization concerns itself.
That said, and with no prior knowledge on the author, I was interested in the quotes and views of those in the field where I was actually interested in...views that offer that rare bit of insight on the issues behind edits from within the industry.
While I do feel, and agree, that censoring on social grounds is abhorrent, there are cases where cultural ambiguity can, and does call in the necessity of alteration to preserve inherent integrity that might be otherwise lost in translation...Adam Smith's example on FF X's Yuna and her final use of "arigatou" for one is extremely tricky here...a more recent(ish) example was the name change of Falcom's Legend of Heroes' title: Trails of Cold Steel. In Japan, "Sen no Kiseki" which loosely translates to "Trails in the Flash". Both titles are references to the "flash and glint of cold steel striking against eachother"...but "sen" and by extension, "flash", shows the awkwardness in translation with regards to naming and what is more likely to be associated by audiences' perceptual schema informed by their culture's broader contextual logic.
Apparently, ages in Senran Kagura caused a similar, but more extreme issue internally. Though I'm more for omitting ages over changing them in any case where it may be an issue. Tom Lipschultz's of XSEED major issue when it came to ages...and by comparison, something of a point of contention on the part of NoA when it came to Bravely Second so I hear.
I'm simply admitting to learning of its complexities inherent to culture and that social editing and censor occurs.
To be honest, quotes by Niche Gamer's editor in chief Brandon Orselli summed up how thorny just even this aspect is,
“It’s a catch-22 when trying to appeal for people who may not appreciate things alien to their culture goes and alienates the people who enjoy experiencing other cultures.”
Strict constructivist in mindset or not, it is a view many share in the community and where some arguments are based on.
To use another quote from the aricle commenting on Kenichiro Takaki, Senran Kagura's stances on the issue,
"Takaki is happy to defend his work in public, but not every developer can or will. If more developers did, it might lead to a better understanding on both sides of the argument."
It's something we *don't* see alot of here and really does bother me.
To bring this back to NISA, I feel that how CG 2 had been handled *is* a product of necessity in every sense here given what's happened, and I'm only talking about CG 2...but just like how societal censorship is very real, prevalent and abused...there are cases where, because of these issues and those inherent to the industry itself show that there aren't easy ways out of this and that you can't please everyone.
Personally, I don't care what the author thinks or feels...only that there was some pretty useful info in there and that it shed some insight into how complicated censorship is and that a lack of communication only adds fuel to the fire.
Look, I'll never agree with the removed audioin CG 2 (or any game really)or the removal or arbitrary alterations of content...NEVER.
Still, where and when these changes hapoen, and why...and whether they are arbitrarily done...are tough issues to negotiate here and ones that have to take into considerations beyond those of fans. It's regrettable and irritating, but a reality I think we are too eager to ignore in lieu of our personal opinions taking precedence over cases like CG 2.
Then again, it isn't like publishers/developers are exactly unified here....