Mass Effect 3 leaked on EA store.

[Ringwraith]

Now that I think about it, this is the first Bioware game where you can continue the romance of the previous game.

Unless you count Baldur's Gate as done by them and an expansion pack as a 'game' for that.

I never did play Baldur's Gate, so I just assumed.
Is it good?

Very old school RPG, seeing as it's 2nd Edition D&D rules.
I was questioning it counting or not as Black Isle primarily made it, and the expansion pack to the second game was the third act of the plot spanning all three games, and romances carried over from the second into it.

[Shizuka]

My point still stands, judging them on just an isolated part is rather pointless.
It's like judging the quality of the story by simply taking one 10-minute section of it, it's daft and doesn't help at all.

That's why I said that I believe in you on the first quote, that on its entirety, it might be good, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that's watching that scene before making any decision.

[ZetaBladeX13]

I still say Bioware is being faggot, what with the (albeit good looking) day 1 DLC.

[DoomKvlt]

While everyone is worrying about the sex scenes, I'm worried about the oversimplification of the core gameplay for newcomers. Don't throw the fans that have been here since the beginning under the bus Bioware.

[PringlesXD]

Just Bioware being Bioware.

[ZetaBladeX13]

While everyone is worrying about the sex scenes, I'm worried about the oversimplification of the core gameplay for newcomers. Don't throw the fans that have been here since the beginning under the bus Bioware.

I could care less about the sex scenes, same-sex or not.


I just care about Bioware ruining the ME series by stripping away the RPG elements.

Though they do work under EA, so I guess it was only a matter of time before they became sellouts.

[DoomKvlt]

While everyone is worrying about the sex scenes, I'm worried about the oversimplification of the core gameplay for newcomers. Don't throw the fans that have been here since the beginning under the bus Bioware.

I could care less about the sex scenes, same-sex or not.


I just care about Bioware ruining the ME series by stripping away the RPG elements.

Though they do work under EA, so I guess it was only a matter of time before they became sellouts.

That's kind of the point I was making.

[vampko]

Personally, I think that's a pretty odd way to judge such games, by not having something which is very much a cultural-specific thing and probably wouldn't fit anyway (with regards to catgirls at least).
Also, it's also much easier for people just to make one female character model and be done with it by the way. I'm sure they could easily try making a very awkward-looking one if they tried, and I'd count that against it more than not having it at all personally.

Great excuses, but that doesn't change anything. How is it odd to want what I like in a game? Or better yet, to want what I don't really care for to not be in a game? Why does Shepard have to be this military grunt? Why can't you have a loli on your team? Is it really that hard to believe it could be done? Especially if said loli was not underage? Or a flat-chested girl? And, it's a SCI-FI game! There are only the rules that Bioware puts on it. There could easily be catgirls and it make sense if the writers felt the urge.

Plus, it's not only Bioware that fails in this. I can't name any WRPGs, cept maybe back in the Baldur's Gate days (not sure, but I can't remember whether it did or not) where you could actually make a flat-chested girl as your character. Yet I can name a lot of JRPGs that do allow that. Even catgirls and lolis.

It just makes it hard for me to get into WRPGs that much. I never really feel inserted into the characters like I do in JRPGs. Or rather Japanese games in general.

I think that game companies just have the wrong 'ideal characters' for someone like myself.

And if I can't insert myself into the characters, then I never feel attached to the story. Which is my problem with most any Bioware game. I just feel like an onlooker. Not really someone who's a part of the world. There's more than just character appearance that has to do with that though. Mass Effect Particularly, I just despised Shepard's voice. It was just so...boring. And sex happens too easily. I honestly think sex shouldn't even be in the games. It ruins the relationships for me. A kiss, or even a hug, or something else that shows how much they love each other is more than enough.

I think that's all i have to say.

[Ringwraith]

I still say Bioware is being faggot, what with the (albeit good looking) day 1 DLC.

The fact it contains actual content still makes me twitchy, as it would've been fine if it was just alternate appearances, although if it softens the blow a bit it was made after most of the game was already done, so nothing was gutted from the game just to make it.
Then again, if they simply had made it available in all new copies, they'd be fine too, it'd just be another Zaeed and by extension all the stuff that came out of the Cerberus Network, but the Online Pass has taken up that slot...

While everyone is worrying about the sex scenes, I'm worried about the oversimplification of the core gameplay for newcomers. Don't throw the fans that have been here since the beginning under the bus Bioware.

They've made it more complicated since the second game, (which did trim a lot of shoddy things out I think but went a little overboard perhaps), as powers now have two options per level (similar to the one at the end of the trees in 2) for about half the entire skill tree, and you can mix and match the bonuses. Also, weapon customisation is back, so you can attach mods to your weapons once again.
If you want to see how much they've changed it, just try out the demo, and if want to avoid spoilers just avoid the singleplayer, as the multiplayer uses the same skill trees structure and weapon customisation system.
They also apparently cut out dialogue of specifics relating to the previous games if you don't import a character from them over, to prevent new people feeling lost while still being able to have all the little nods to previous events like they had in 2.

[DoomKvlt]

I still say Bioware is being faggot, what with the (albeit good looking) day 1 DLC.

The fact it contains actual content still makes me twitchy, as it would've been fine if it was just alternate appearances, although if it softens the blow a bit it was made after most of the game was already done, so nothing was gutted from the game just to make it.
Then again, if they simply had made it available in all new copies, they'd be fine too, it'd just be another Zaeed and by extension all the stuff that came out of the Cerberus Network, but the Online Pass has taken up that slot...

While everyone is worrying about the sex scenes, I'm worried about the oversimplification of the core gameplay for newcomers. Don't throw the fans that have been here since the beginning under the bus Bioware.

They've made it more complicated since the second game, (which did trim a lot of shoddy things out I think but went a little overboard perhaps), as powers now have two options per level (similar to the one at the end of the trees in 2) for about half the entire skill tree, and you can mix and match the bonuses. Also, weapon customisation is back, so you can attach mods to your weapons once again.
If you want to see how much they've changed it, just try out the demo, and if want to avoid spoilers just avoid the singleplayer, as the multiplayer uses the same skill trees structure and weapon customisation system.
They also apparently cut out dialogue of specifics relating to the previous games if you don't import a character from them over, to prevent new people feeling lost while still being able to have all the little nods to previous events like they had in 2.

That's good to hear. I have been avoiding the demo for the sake of keeping it completely new when it's released. I'm looking forward to ME3 a bit more now.

[ZetaBladeX13]

Personally, I think that's a pretty odd way to judge such games, by not having something which is very much a cultural-specific thing and probably wouldn't fit anyway (with regards to catgirls at least).
Also, it's also much easier for people just to make one female character model and be done with it by the way. I'm sure they could easily try making a very awkward-looking one if they tried, and I'd count that against it more than not having it at all personally.

Great excuses, but that doesn't change anything. How is it odd to want what I like in a game? Or better yet, to want what I don't really care for to not be in a game? Why does Shepard have to be this military grunt? Why can't you have a loli on your team? Is it really that hard to believe it could be done? Especially if said loli was not underage? Or a flat-chested girl? And, it's a SCI-FI game! There are only the rules that Bioware puts on it. There could easily be catgirls and it make sense if the writers felt the urge.

Plus, it's not only Bioware that fails in this. I can't name any WRPGs, cept maybe back in the Baldur's Gate days (not sure, but I can't remember whether it did or not) where you could actually make a flat-chested girl as your character. Yet I can name a lot of JRPGs that do allow that. Even catgirls and lolis.

It just makes it hard for me to get into WRPGs that much. I never really feel inserted into the characters like I do in JRPGs. Or rather Japanese games in general.

I think that game companies just have the wrong 'ideal characters' for someone like myself.

And if I can't insert myself into the characters, then I never feel attached to the story. Which is my problem with most any Bioware game. I just feel like an onlooker. Not really someone who's a part of the world. There's more than just character appearance that has to do with that though. Mass Effect Particularly, I just despised Shepard's voice. It was just so...boring. And sex happens too easily. I honestly think sex shouldn't even be in the games. It ruins the relationships for me. A kiss, or even a hug, or something else that shows how much they love each other is more than enough.

I think that's all i have to say.

^ Implying it's still a WRPG at this point.

[Ringwraith]

Great excuses, but that doesn't change anything. How is it odd to want what I like in a game? Or better yet, to want what I don't really care for to not be in a game? Why does Shepard have to be this military grunt? Why can't you have a loli on your team? Is it really that hard to believe it could be done? Especially if said loli was not underage? Or a flat-chested girl? And, it's a SCI-FI game! There are only the rules that Bioware puts on it. There could easily be catgirls and it make sense if the writers felt the urge.

Plus, it's not only Bioware that fails in this. I can't name any WRPGs, cept maybe back in the Baldur's Gate days (not sure, but I can't remember whether it did or not) where you could actually make a flat-chested girl as your character. Yet I can name a lot of JRPGs that do allow that. Even catgirls and lolis.

It just makes it hard for me to get into WRPGs that much. I never really feel inserted into the characters like I do in JRPGs. Or rather Japanese games in general.

I think that game companies just have the wrong 'ideal characters' for someone like myself.

And if I can't insert myself into the characters, then I never feel attached to the story. Which is my problem with most any Bioware game. I just feel like an onlooker. Not really someone who's a part of the world. There's more than just character appearance that has to do with that though. Mass Effect Particularly, I just despised Shepard's voice. It was just so...boring. And sex happens too easily. I honestly think sex shouldn't even be in the games. It ruins the relationships for me. A kiss, or even a hug, or something else that shows how much they love each other is more than enough.

I think that's all i have to say.

That's fine, but it seems to me that if they simply had one specific type of character you then would like the whole thing, which doesn't make much sense to me.
Also, there are two choices for Shepard voice seeing as there's a gender option, and I know a lot of people take issue with Mark Meer's performance (I'm not one of them, but people are allowed to dislike these things). So there is some choice in these matters, although Mass Effect does lean a bit on a third-person narrative as Shepard has a fairly defined background and certain behaviours you can't really change. Shepard is generally a fairly consistent person no matter what wide array of choices you pick. Whereas in something like Skyrim your character is completely a blank slate for you to create a character around however you feel like it.
Also, if you think sex happen 'too easily', then you just have to take a look around at what Western society is today. It's really not too different. You're allowed to dislike it, but it's certainly not unrealistic. (Although I must say there does seem to be 'showing for the sake of it' quite a lot these days, when simply implying something would be enough, having said that, some of the 'sex scenes' in ME2 were much better because they didn't really show anything, just the prior conversations).

^ Implying it's still a WRPG at this point.

...how is it not? (If you're referring to Mass Effect there).
I really don't get when people try to argue Mass Effect 2 'isn't an RPG', as it's certainly more of an RPG than some games supposedly are, and even gets the most important part of 'RPG' done better than some things.

[ZetaBladeX13]

You mean the fact that I have the option at the beginning of the game to play in a mode that throws you into the action without customizing anything, turn all dialogues into cutscenes, and just turn the entire game into a 3rd-person shooter still makes it an RPG?


As for ME2, they stripped a couple of RPG elements present in ME1.
- destroyed the inventory system, made it into a basic HUD weapon select found in the average TPS.
- weapons now have ammo instead of the overheat system for some reason even though they explained why they didn't need any in the first game (made it more like a shooter)
- controls had been completely consolized/changed. Users switching to ME2 after beating 1 had issues with the sudden change in controls. (though this is mostly an issue for PC-gamers)


However, ME3 has taken it a step further by literally giving you the option to not play this game as an RPG so they could make it more mainstream for fans of shooters who don't have the attention span for RPGs.


This last bit has nothing to do with ME3 not being an RPG, but:
- They hired an IGN writer to be a character in ME3. LOL
Somone is getting a 9.5-10/10

[vampko]

That's fine, but it seems to me that if they simply had one specific type of character you then would like the whole thing, which doesn't make much sense to me.

Let's say that the main character of Mass Effect, Shepard, was someone who never tried to step on anyone's toes and always was only saying things with the utmost formality. No matter your choice, that was still the general feel of how Shepard acted. Would that have gone over as well with people? Would you like that?
That's how I feel about Mass Effect, Shepard's just like this grunt, no matter how much I don't want Shepard to be acting like a stereotypical grunt, Shepard still does. All the choices feel superficial at best. That's how I feel when playing the game. So, yes, having a more interesting and quirky character type would be much more interesting to myself.

Also, if you think sex happen 'too easily', then you just have to take a look around at what Western society is today.

I don't really care. It's a videogame, not a window. I want to see a fictional world. If I wanted to see the 'real world', I'd just look out my window.

The problem is that I grew up watching anime and playing JRPGs. I played games like Baldur's Gate, Hexen, Daggerfall/etc. But anime and JRPGs (and Japanese games in general) are the large part of what influenced the sort of tastes I gained. WRPGs go for a demographic that is nothing like myself. So, why should it be so hard to understand that I can't really find much reason to like the games?

[Ringwraith]

You mean the fact that I have the option at the beginning of the game to play in a mode that throws you into the action without customizing anything, turn all dialogues into cutscenes, and just turn the entire game into a 3rd-person shooter still makes it an RPG?

Well, it's an option, so I don't see why its inclusion makes it any less of an RPG seeing as you can do the RPG bit anyway.
Does the option to auto-resolve every battle in a Total War game make it not a tactical game overall? Just because you can skip something doesn't mean it's not there.
Besides, you can go the other way and make the combat a cakewalk in ME3 so it's all but skipped, they're just giving options.

That's fine, but it seems to me that if they simply had one specific type of character you then would like the whole thing, which doesn't make much sense to me.

Let's say that the main character of Mass Effect, Shepard, was someone who never tried to step on anyone's toes and always was only saying things with the utmost formality. No matter your choice, that was still the general feel of how Shepard acted. Would that have gone over as well with people? Would you like that?
That's how I feel about Mass Effect, Shepard's just like this grunt, no matter how much I don't want Shepard to be acting like a stereotypical grunt, Shepard still does. All the choices feel superficial at best. That's how I feel when playing the game. So, yes, having a more interesting and quirky character type would be much more interesting to myself.

I just got the impression you needed a single character you could easily identify with or something present in the game, regardless of being the main character or not, to be able to enjoy the game as a whole. That's what failed to make sense in my head.

Also, if you think sex happen 'too easily', then you just have to take a look around at what Western society is today.

I don't really care. It's a videogame, not a window. I want to see a fictional world. If I wanted to see the 'real world', I'd just look out my window.

From what you wrote I got the impression you almost thought the whole situation was grossly 'unrealistic' in some way and that's what bothered you about it.
Besides, it's an entirely optional part of the game anyway, so if you don't like it, you can just pass it by.

The problem is that I grew up watching anime and playing JRPGs. I played games like Baldur's Gate, Hexen, Daggerfall/etc. But anime and JRPGs (and Japanese games in general) are the large part of what influenced the sort of tastes I gained. WRPGs go for a demographic that is nothing like myself. So, why should it be so hard to understand that I can't really find much reason to like the games?

I have no issue with people not liking a particular genre, it's just I got the impression you were disliking it for reasons that I personally think make no sense. It's okay to not like certain things, but it has to be for sensible reasons, and I thought some of yours were a little odd, or they came across to me like that.