Jericho's Philosophy Corner

[JerichoDeath]

"Here is where I plant my flag,
here is where I make my start."

Anyway,
I know that I've mentioned this before, but I've kinda been dancing around it. So, it's finally time.
Every week, or whenever I feel like it, I'll be posting a topic to talk about; Debate, if you will.
The topic could range from an interesting historical figure to current events.
The important thing to keep in mind is that this is for calm, friendly debates, not angry arguments. (no, not getting into semantics with the word 'argument')

For now, I'm somewhat tired. So, I'll be posting the first topic tomorrow, er- later.

Ah, one more thing:
If anyone feels compelled to have an interesting conversation, but I haven't posted that as a topic, don't worry about posting what you want to talk about. Just don't interrupt what's already out there. Play nice.

[JerichoDeath]

Hmm. Let's start strong, shall we?

I'll pose a simple question, and then, I'll expound on it later.

Here we go:
What is Freewill?

A counter-question/argument will come later. For now, I'd like to see the response to this.

[Redhorse]

Free will is the ability to make voluntary decisions and choices without interference from fate.

Also, sorry I didn't respond but I hadn't noticed you'd edited this. >_<

[raspberrylicious]

Free will is choice.

[Prinapocalypse]

Didn't notice you had edited this either!

Free will is the ability to make choices, which may or may not be good for you. These choices shape our lives and can also affect the lives of others and the world, in unimaginable ways.

[Xeras]

Free Will...

Does it really exist, or is everything predestined? Why would I bring up predestination? Simple, because God is omnipotent. So, does Free Will exist, or is it an illusion?

[Prinapocalypse]

Free Will...

Does it really exist, or is everything predestined? Why would I bring up predestination? Simple, because God is omnipotent. So, does Free Will exist, or is it an illusion?

Free will exists, but that doesn't mean God wouldn't already know the choices you will make before you ever made them.

[Redhorse]

Free will exists, but that doesn't mean God wouldn't already know the choices you will make before you ever made them.

Brings up interesting ideas when combined with a certain off-limits tree, don't it?

[Prinapocalypse]

Free will exists, but that doesn't mean God wouldn't already know the choices you will make before you ever made them.

Brings up interesting ideas when combined with a certain off-limits tree, don't it?

Yes it does.

[Xeras]

Free Will...

Does it really exist, or is everything predestined? Why would I bring up predestination? Simple, because God is omnipotent. So, does Free Will exist, or is it an illusion?

Free will exists, but that doesn't mean God wouldn't already know the choices you will make before you ever made them.

If someone knows your choices before you actually make them, are you still actually making a choice, or are you running on a pre-installed program?

[Redhorse]

If someone knows your choices before you actually make them, are you still actually making a choice, or are you running on a pre-installed program?

We, the ones making the choices, are not omniscient (guessing that's what you meant earlier, not omnipotent). Therefore, it's still free will.
Also, another opinion some have is that God knows everything you may possibly choose to do, and what path those choices/actions would take you down. But he doesn't know what you will ultimately choose, because he gave the gift of free will, and that is your decision alone.

edit: Basically, he knows all the possible outcomes, but not what your actual choice will be. If so, though, I'm certain he could guess. Perhaps he chooses not to~

[Prinapocalypse]

@Xeras - You're still making a choice in my opinion.

You could still choose to do two completely different things, which would've taken your life in very different directions. But in the end you still chose one over the other. Anyone seeing which path you will take isn't forcing you to either decision. Thus it's still a choice.

[JerichoDeath]

We, the ones making the choices, are not omniscient (guessing that's what you meant earlier, not omnipotent). Therefore, it's still free will.
Also, another opinion some have is that God knows everything you may possibly choose to do, and what path those choices/actions would take you down. But he doesn't know what you will ultimately choose, because he gave the gift of free will, and that is your decision alone.

edit: Basically, he knows all the possible outcomes, but not what your actual choice will be. If so, though, I'm certain he could guess. Perhaps he chooses not to~

+2 points: I haven't heard this one before.

I have a nice little information tidbit to throw out, but before I do, I've got to address this:

Free will is the ability to make voluntary decisions and choices without interference from fate.

While I like the bit about making voluntary decisions, I personally wouldn't include an indirect affirmation of fate as a related issue to religion. The ideal of Free-Will is independent of Religion as it exists as an idea in nearly every society, while the religious views of those societies change dependent on region.

Anywho, before I engage Devil's Advocate mode, I have a question for Redhorse-san:
If God is All-Knowing, therefore always observing us all, does this action fall under the Observer Effect, in your opinion, in so far as the act of observing having an effect on the ones being observed?

[Xeras]

Jericho.

I don't really understand what you are asking, but this is potentially what I got from it.

Do you think people act differently, since they fear that 'God' is watching them?

[Redhorse]

+2 points: I haven't heard this one before.

I have a nice little information tidbit to throw out, but before I do, I've got to address this:

Free will is the ability to make voluntary decisions and choices without interference from fate.

While I like the bit about making voluntary decisions, I personally wouldn't include an indirect affirmation of fate as a related issue to religion. The ideal of Free-Will is independent of Religion as it exists as an idea in nearly every society, while the religious views of those societies change dependent on region.

Anywho, before I engage Devil's Advocate mode, I have a question for Redhorse-san:
If God is All-Knowing, therefore always observing us all, does this action fall under the Observer Effect, in your opinion, in so far as the act of observing having an effect on the ones being observed?

Whoooo~! 2 points!!! Also, I had enough additional room in my sig to put JerichoDeath now, so you might like that~

There, I was simply giving a standard dictionary definition of free will to be silly/ start off the conversation~
Nothing for me to affirm, I'm afraid, indirectly or otherwise. So it's all good, dude.

Now for the question. Nothing much to say except, of course it does. It's EVERYWHERE. So many rights and rules in the world are based upon values that only matter because there are sooooooo very many god-fearing people. If we didn't think someone was watching us and silently judging, there'd be a lot less guilt and remorse in the world, I should think (Not saying there would be none, because of course people base the things they do off of empathy for fellow beings, etc. as well obviously). It would be so much easier for people to be truer to their basic nature, or perhaps, less true to themselves (lying goes both ways and all that shiz). The action of observing us has quite a large effect, basically. Mabye because it's on such a large scale (everyone everywhere, every minute of every day).

Oh, I love Devil's Advocate. Bring it, bratja.