Improvements For D5

[jr2nd]

I think that the way you level up weapons is ok as it is now.

how so? your STUCK to what few weapons you can use... i love my thief to have a sword + sword skills, now i cant unless i make her reincarnate into another class get the skill then reincarnate back... or go into the hastle of doing character world... to me my thief is ONLY a thief only class she'll ever be... now its just hastle

If you just leveled up the 1st tier of every generic class to unlock all of the tiers for that class it would be kind of easy.

D1 you just killed the monster and it was unlocked, humans after unlocked where just level'd up to unlock, not the current nonsense of...

level up the 1st tier to the 2nd tier class level, reincarn into the 2nd tier,
level up the 2nd tier to the 3rd tier class level, reincarn into the 3rd tier,
level up the 3rd tier to the 4th tier class level, reincarn into the 4th tier,
level up the 4th tier to the 5th tier class level, reincarn into the 5th tier,
level up the 5th tier to the 6th tier class level, reincarn into the 6th tier,
relevel up

JUST to get the 6 Tier monster/human.. then do this for how many classes there is in D4 and you've got a REAL chore.

I can see the NIS logic of trying to extend the game's life, but ugh...

besides why are you allways negativing my posts? if i say A your ALLWAYS saying no B

[dood]

I don't try to disagree with what you say just because it's you. I don't have a problem with you or anything we just seem to disagree with a lot of things ya know.

[Lord Starfish]

D1 you just killed the monster and it was unlocked, humans after unlocked where just level'd up to unlock, not the current nonsense of...

level up the 1st tier to the 2nd tier class level, reincarn into the 2nd tier,
level up the 2nd tier to the 3rd tier class level, reincarn into the 3rd tier,
level up the 3rd tier to the 4th tier class level, reincarn into the 4th tier,
level up the 4th tier to the 5th tier class level, reincarn into the 5th tier,
level up the 5th tier to the 6th tier class level, reincarn into the 6th tier,
relevel up

JUST to get the 6 Tier monster/human.. then do this for how many classes there is in D4 and you've got a REAL chore.

I can see the NIS logic of trying to extend the game's life, but ugh...

Yes, but then again, with how Disgaea 1 did it... what was the point in tiers 2 to 5 even existing? Just leveling up a tier 1 character enabled one to immediately access tier 6, so the ones inbetween really served no purpose.

[mario_0345]

A couple of Ideas that I just came up with,

Dupe Station - You know a place where you go to Dupe your Items, however inorder to dupe you would need an item of equal rank or a combination of items of equal rank to the item you want to dupe. An example would be duping a rank 40A, you would need another rank 40B to change into a copy of rank 40A or a combination like a rank 20, and two rank 10's however the ranks would have to be equal nothing over, nothing less. So a combination of 3 rank 20's wouldn't be able to be used and a combination of rank 25 and two rank 12's wouldn't work either. As for how you unlock it, you would need to complete the X-Dimension, like 50% completeion of the X-Dimension unlocks the land of Carnage, while 100% unlocks the Dupe Station, in the land of Carnage. Also each dupe would cost at least a quintillion HL, which is something that I don't think is that bad since it would actually give you something good to spend on all that HL you get from the Post Game.

Title World - Basically something similar to how titles worked in Phantom Brave how ever instead of using percentages the titles would actually add onto your stats with each title adding a max of 300 points to a stat with 5,000 to HP and SP, so a level one character with a max title would actually have level one stats in the 300's however these stats would actually be considered creation stats not added on stats so when you level up you actually get 300+original stats with out the title each time you level up. As for how you power up the title you would go to the charaworlder and select title world, once there you would be able to pay for a power up using 3 different amounts, first would be 10 points to your selected attribute, which would cost 10,000 mana, the second would be 30 points to your selected attribute, which would cost 100,000 mana, with the third being 50 points to your selected attribute, which would cost 500,000 mana. As for how you actually change your title I'd have that be something for when you reincarnate or first create a character like an option that says Genius - custom title, as for why Genius well let's be honest when you are really powering up characters you often chose to go with Genius, so make that the one that gets the custom title.

Double Killing - Another thing that came from Phantom Brave instead of having the bodies just disappear why not have them lay on the ground taking up squares, then one can either or if a character with the revive spell gets to them they can raise them back up to fighting strength.

[jr2nd]

Yes, but then again, with how Disgaea 1 did it... what was the point in tiers 2 to 5 even existing? Just leveling up a tier 1 character enabled one to immediately access tier 6, so the ones inbetween really served no purpose.

not being rude but you just shot yourself in your own foot with your own answer...

once you've unlocked a tier 6 with the current D4 method tier 2-5 in your words would still serve no purpose.. as you could then do a tier 1 into 6 reincarnation and skip 2-5.

to me tier 2-5 do serve a purpose.. variety... in my games again i quote my D1 as i love it lol i have (to name a few)

Red Mage
Archer Sniper (2nd Tier) with an Axe
Galaxy Mage that only uses an Axe
Thief (Raider 5th tier) who ONLY uses a Sword
Saviour with ALL magic skills

my red mage is and will only be a red mage no reincarnation into any other class like my others because i like a variety of characters / classes / tiers to me it adds logativity for the game.

as an example a Saviour (assuming D4 has one as well) with ALL magic skills would be a right royal pain in the ass to create, so much a normal person wouldnt even bother doing it just leave her a healer.

edit: or as i just realised a few hours later lol if i went by your words.. why doesnt D4 once you unlock a tier 6 remove the previous 1-5 tiers.. as you said

the ones inbetween really served no purpose

they're kept for variety.

[Tokiko]

A couple of Ideas that I just came up with,

Dupe Station - You know a place where you go to Dupe your Items, however inorder to dupe you would need an item of equal rank or a combination of items of equal rank to the item you want to dupe. An example would be duping a rank 40A, you would need another rank 40B to change into a copy of rank 40A or a combination like a rank 20, and two rank 10's however the ranks would have to be equal nothing over, nothing less. So a combination of 3 rank 20's wouldn't be able to be used and a combination of rank 25 and two rank 12's wouldn't work either. As for how you unlock it, you would need to complete the X-Dimension, like 50% completeion of the X-Dimension unlocks the land of Carnage, while 100% unlocks the Dupe Station, in the land of Carnage. Also each dupe would cost at least a quintillion HL, which is something that I don't think is that bad since it would actually give you something good to spend on all that HL you get from the Post Game.

Double Killing - Another thing that came from Phantom Brave instead of having the bodies just disappear why not have them lay on the ground taking up squares, then one can either or if a character with the revive spell gets to them they can raise them back up to fighting strength.

Hmm as much as i dont mind the idea of double killing i can also see it being really really irritating simply because it may unnecessarily drag out a lot of fights that should be over extremely quickly and would be really annoying, not too mention like most mechanics in these types of games i see it being way more abusable by the Computer then by the player and for certain things like the item world and gimmick fights i see it being really annoying. Mainly remember every one of those straight line of zombies levels where you can have at most like 1-2 people attacking one of them at a time and it gets really annoying quick, now having to waste another action to then kill the corpse since the computer never would and it's just maddening.

As for Duping, as much as I liked the glitch/bug/exploit in D4 i found it made the game way too easy and would rather just see the whole thing go the way of the dodo. At the end of the day to get that level 40B item or whatever would take just as long as it would to get another copy of it all together. Not too mention then it much like D4 really ruins the end game playability of the game, mainly when i get one "perfect" trapzohedron that i then dupe enough for every one of my characters to have 3 it kinda ruins it. Not too mention that at that point your most likely overkilling everything and anything anyway. Ya it's a one player game and yada yada yada let me play how i want sort of thing but this is just me talking as that guy who got all my stuff the hard way in D1 (including tons of yoshi's ) once you have all that and it's all duped it really takes the fun out of the game since you now have all the best stuff and most likely nothing to do with it aside from maybe beating uber baal/pringer X but even then at that point it's most likely redundant anyway.

[King_Krichevskoy]

A couple of Ideas that I just came up with,

Dupe Station - You know a place where you go to Dupe your Items, however inorder to dupe you would need an item of equal rank or a combination of items of equal rank to the item you want to dupe. An example would be duping a rank 40A, you would need another rank 40B to change into a copy of rank 40A or a combination like a rank 20, and two rank 10's however the ranks would have to be equal nothing over, nothing less. So a combination of 3 rank 20's wouldn't be able to be used and a combination of rank 25 and two rank 12's wouldn't work either. As for how you unlock it, you would need to complete the X-Dimension, like 50% completeion of the X-Dimension unlocks the land of Carnage, while 100% unlocks the Dupe Station, in the land of Carnage. Also each dupe would cost at least a quintillion HL, which is something that I don't think is that bad since it would actually give you something good to spend on all that HL you get from the Post Game.

Double Killing - Another thing that came from Phantom Brave instead of having the bodies just disappear why not have them lay on the ground taking up squares, then one can either or if a character with the revive spell gets to them they can raise them back up to fighting strength.

Hmm as much as i dont mind the idea of double killing i can also see it being really really irritating simply because it may unnecessarily drag out a lot of fights that should be over extremely quickly and would be really annoying, not too mention like most mechanics in these types of games i see it being way more abusable by the Computer then by the player and for certain things like the item world and gimmick fights i see it being really annoying. Mainly remember every one of those straight line of zombies levels where you can have at most like 1-2 people attacking one of them at a time and it gets really annoying quick, now having to waste another action to then kill the corpse since the computer never would and it's just maddening.

As for Duping, as much as I liked the glitch/bug/exploit in D4 i found it made the game way too easy and would rather just see the whole thing go the way of the dodo. At the end of the day to get that level 40B item or whatever would take just as long as it would to get another copy of it all together. Not too mention then it much like D4 really ruins the end game playability of the game, mainly when i get one "perfect" trapzohedron that i then dupe enough for every one of my characters to have 3 it kinda ruins it. Not too mention that at that point your most likely overkilling everything and anything anyway. Ya it's a one player game and yada yada yada let me play how i want sort of thing but this is just me talking as that guy who got all my stuff the hard way in D1 (including tons of yoshi's ) once you have all that and it's all duped it really takes the fun out of the game since you now have all the best stuff and most likely nothing to do with it aside from maybe beating uber baal/pringer X but even then at that point it's most likely redundant anyway.

Your not the only person that feels that way about duping, I wouldn't care if they just completely got rid of it, considering I've never duped once in my time with all the games.

[Tokiko]

Your not the only person that feels that way about duping, I wouldn't care if they just completely got rid of it, considering I've never duped once in my time with all the games.

Well truly it is an exploit that does kind of ruin the game, ya i liked it the first time i duped my level 300 traps for everybody because it took me 12 hours to get that one because making a "perfect" one is such a pain, though once i had them all i quickly realized that i then had nothing to do once i had them all so it was pretty counter productive especially since i could just give them all to a level 1 and it could one shot anything kinda took some if not all the fun out of the game. Would rather just have to farm them all myself that or I'd get sick of it. One or the other.

[King_Krichevskoy]

Yea I just have so much more fun getting the weapons and doing an item world and having a character I worked really hard on to be awesome without just duping a retard strong item and giving it to them, to be honest in a way the weapons and armor and other items are just as much a character then the actual characters are.

[Tokiko]

Well since i've been replaying D4 again I had a thought I think pretty much needs to be in the game at least in some form anyway. Mainly that as it stood in D4 i think getting to the Land of Carnage was way to poorly designed. Not in the sense that it was hard but this is basically what I'm proposing.

As far as the necessary pieces go as long as the keep the X-dimension in the game your odds of getting the pieces should increase with the percentage you've completed of the X-dimension. This would also apply to spawn chances of unique pirates ala Meowkins in D4. Frankly I've been trying to farm them with 100% X-dimension completed for about 3 days straight now and still cant find them even following all the criteria for them, I dont mind grinding but this is getting a little ridiculous. Same with the treasure drops for the P Flonzor pieces would make sense that they have slightly higher odds of spawning when you complete the X-dimension levels.

Next being that they should really give some kind of a hint as to what you need, in D4 they truly say "get more ship parts" and thats about it. Seems that they really should give at least some kind of a hint as to what pieces you need since it seems stupid to give no indication whatsoever. Basically what I'd propose is something along the lines of this, but I'm using D4 as my means for this since it's how i remember it.

"...Traveler only the finest of ship parts will do to get you to the land of carnage, dare i even say, "the flashiest" of parts, after all you will want to make some kind of an entrance when you arrive" (Implying the P Flonzor parts instead of the other 2 variants)

as for the individual parts my idea being something of a riddle system that would work something like a dialogue option thing, basically you would click on say the "Head" dialogue and get read something of a riddle for it to solve to get it and same with all the others, I'll list all the ones i came up with just as guides sort of thing.

However when you talk to the NPC it would start by saying "These parts have been missing for years and with this many demons in the Netherworld it could belong to any of them, though knowing them the stronger they are the more likely they are to have it." or something along those lines. Just set it up as not being 1 specific demon sort of thing.

then as far as the dialogues go use something like.
Head: Held by a female with more brains than brawn, she has created some of the most amazing wonders of the demon world and who prefers to use her creations as weapons rather than magic or arms. (professor)

Body: Legend has it that it has been seen sailing through the deepest expanses of the item world. The crew of this ship is said to be the most heartless cats in the netherworld. (Meowkin pirates)

Top: Held by a mysterious Warrior who's magical prowess could only be exceeded by her radiant beauty, said to be one of the most noble demons in the netherworld whos also no stranger to being in the fray of battle. (Magic Knight)

Left Side: Held by one of the most fearsome demons in the Netherworld, the very presence of them is said to be enough top bring death to the lesser of demons, their ability with magic is fearsome enough though their true weapon is the scythe which they wield to slay all those who stand before them. (Death)

Right Side: Held by a most unexpected of demons, one that is suppose to serve others not strike out on his own. How he came upon the part is still unknown but you'll know your close when you can see his rather striking wings and beak. (Prinny .... obviously lol)

Rear: Held by a Demon that looks to be more machine than monster, considered to be one of the fiercest of demons in the Netherworld. You'll know you've found him when you see his deadly arm cannon, just hope it's not the last thing you ever see. (Rifle Demon)

Or something to that effect, thats basically what i came up with in about 5 minutes just as quick reference since i got tired of constantly checking the internet for it.

[the8anarchist]

OH HELL NO!! no no no, for the love of all that is holy DO NOT make us unlock the LoC again this way, I expressed a more proper flowing way to unlock it in a previous post

Make the LoC easier to unlock, im going through hell trying to get it in 4 right now, IIRC some 100+ reloads on lvl 82 tryin to get the 2nd scalper for X-Dimension Maps Chaps 6-10.

they need to make the X-Dimension like the Dark World in 2 was: fulfill condition, unlock map and they also need to just make LoC unlock just be Clear X amount of X-Dimension maps

i dont even wanna get into the hell that is the meowkins pirates and hunting the other ship parts down.

seriously unlocking the LoC this game is becoming a colossal waste of time and an exercise in futility. Ive probably spent 20 hours and still ongoing tryin for the ship parts time that could AND SHOULD be spent leveling chars and items, because to me disgaea is all about level grinding anything that stonewalls me from doing that for such a length of time is bad IMO, they need to just make unlocking the LoC based on cleared X-Dimension maps and make getting the X-Dimension maps the same as 2's dark world

Seriously making the player gamble with the RNG every single step of the way is a horrid design choice and waste of time, because players are just going to save scum until they get the part/item they need wasting time that isnt even going to be clocked on the save file

[Tokiko]

OH HELL NO!! no no no, for the love of all that is holy DO NOT make us unlock the LoC again this way, I expressed a more proper flowing way to unlock it in a previous post

Make the LoC easier to unlock, im going through hell trying to get it in 4 right now, IIRC some 100+ reloads on lvl 82 tryin to get the 2nd scalper for X-Dimension Maps Chaps 6-10.

they need to make the X-Dimension like the Dark World in 2 was: fulfill condition, unlock map and they also need to just make LoC unlock just be Clear X amount of X-Dimension maps

i dont even wanna get into the hell that is the meowkins pirates and hunting the other ship parts down.

seriously unlocking the LoC this game is becoming a colossal waste of time and an exercise in futility. Ive probably spent 20 hours and still ongoing tryin for the ship parts time that could AND SHOULD be spent leveling chars and items, because to me disgaea is all about level grinding anything that stonewalls me from doing that for such a length of time is bad IMO, they need to just make unlocking the LoC based on cleared X-Dimension maps and make getting the X-Dimension maps the same as 2's dark world

Seriously making the player gamble with the RNG every single step of the way is a horrid design choice and waste of time, because players are just going to save scum until they get the part/item they need wasting time that isnt even going to be clocked on the save file

Well i disagree that it should be that easy. It should still be at least semi-challenging to do so, heck as far as say the Dark World goes in D2 i was able to unlock and beat most levels in the dark world as soon as i could beat the main level which would make it way too easy, especially because it would make almost 90% of items irrelevant since you could go from semi-base stuff to level 39 items etc.

Basically what I propose is that the scalper be a lot more common once you clear the game if he's not just spawning at the base with the same super expensive tickets as before (D3/4). then once you buy them you can clear them and in doing so increase your odds to get the things to spawn, the idea being that if you wanted to sit down and clear 100% of the X-dimension then you'd have near 100% spawn rates on Meowkin pirates and the various monsters depending on their base modifiers, meaning if you caught say a level 1 whatever the odds would still be pretty bad but if you caught say a level 500ish it'd be near 100%.

However if you never wanted to clear the X-dimesnsion you could still get all the components they would just be significantly more difficult to acquire.

I feel your pain about hating farming all the things but at the same time when i look at this stuff as the power gamer that i am if it were that easy i'd unlock it in no time flat and it would make way too much of the game way too easy. Ya i hate the current system of taking for my past Meowkin pirates 3 days of reloading straight and now this file playthrough about 4 days of off and on trying to farm them and most likely 50+ reloads per monster trying to get the item but I dont hate the idea of it, i just hate the odds they gave us for getting the stuff and the fact that they give us no intel as to how to unlock them all.

[darkrchaos]

I would like to have auto talk, like in HDMK2. I get so annoyed clicking "X" after every sentence

[ShadowJetX]

I've abused the item dupe pretty hard up to the point of where I am, so any point I could make on that is moot.

Though I do agree with you guys on the LoC unlocking thingy. Sure it only took me like 8 or 10 hours (combined with the reloads), but I would never have been able to do it without a guide.

What I don't like was how people could "dupe" other peoples characters in this game. I didn't like how you could dupe/capture 300% aptitude androids.

For an improvement I wanna propose, have an adjustable POV camera like they did for D3:AoD (except you manipulate the POV camera with the touch screen, but you get what I mean right?).

[Koro_Kizama]

Hmm character creation would be cool, from scratch of course