Criminal Girls Censorship

They're criminals. They're girls. They're criminal girls!
artemusclyde
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby artemusclyde » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:33 am

Teddie Sage wrote:
Totooria wrote:Isn't your job suppose to be to localize, and not parent us? We are adults.


Then start acting like responsible adults instead of name calling, blaming everything on Houk and the programmers. They're just doing what they're being told by their bosses. All I've been seeing on this thread from this thread are childish tantrums and irrational decisions made by some people. "Your game is censored so I'm going to cancel my pre-order of this or that anime to punish you." It's childish. Nobody needs to know that. Just do whatever you gotta do and stop thinking they're the only bad guys here. You're all putting pressure on them by using insults and/or passive aggressive sentences. They're probably fed up with all this thread right now, like some veteran users who are just shaking their heads. As entertaining as this conversation has been, I think everything has already been said and resaid.


We have no idea how sales will work out, so the best way to get your point across is to simply state to the company that they lost a sale. It's speaking with your wallet.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Totooria » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:35 am

Teddie Sage wrote:Then start acting like responsible adults instead of name calling, blaming everything on Houk and the programmers. They're just doing what they're being told by their bosses. All I've been seeing on this thread from this thread are childish tantrums and irrational decisions made by some people. "Your game is censored so I'm going to cancel my pre-order of this or that anime to punish you." It's childish. Nobody needs to know that. Just do whatever you gotta do and stop thinking they're the only bad guys here. You're all putting pressure on them by using insults and/or passive aggressive sentences. They're probably fed up with all this thread right now, like some veteran users who are just shaking their heads. As entertaining as this conversation has been, I think everything has already been said and resaid.


Name calling? What did I call him that was offensive or rude at all? And I should clarify, I wasn't talking just to Houk, but to the company in general. And how is canceling a preorder childish? Vote with your money. If you disagree with a companies practices and it effects the game, how is it immature to not support it? I would actually argue its mature. Put your money where your mouth is.

Whether this is entertaining or not is irrelevant. This is a battle. I don't care if its tired out and been done to death. Its an issue that needs to get fix. And if your tired of it all, just click away. Its still an issue.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby artemusclyde » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:37 am

ArmedDragoon wrote:
kudo wrote:All dialog during punishment scenes will be removed.


Fair enough on the audio. It was a little unclear.

kudo wrote:But yeah, I get what you mean, maybe we'd get more games like Hotaru if it sold well, games that won't be targets to censorship in the first place.
Still, I enjoy games like Criminal Girls too and if their stance on this that all sales show their "business strategy" on censorship is working, I have little to no choice than get as many people aware of it and try to get them not to buy anything in general if that all is only going to enforce their current BS Censorship.


And here we are with the problem; how would buying Hotaru, a game with no censorship (presumably), show NISA that censorship is working?


Cause in the censorship arguments NIS mods always bring up the whole, are company has been profitable for years so your opinion doesn't matter argument. So people see that as supporting any game from NIS as supporting censorship, the mods really need to drop that stance, it rubs people the wrong way and turns them off from the company. It also gives the company a negative image to customers by doing stuff like that. Once again bad customer service.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Totooria » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:38 am

Zantagor wrote:
I'm not sure you really know what actual localization means. I'm guessing you boycotted the Phoenix Wright series too right? Right?


"Localization is the process of adapting internationalized software for a specific region or language by adding locale-specific components and translating text."

Its translation, not censorship. What exactly is your argument here?

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kudo » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:41 am

ArmedDragoon wrote:
kudo wrote:All dialog during punishment scenes will be removed.


Fair enough on the audio. It was a little unclear.

kudo wrote:But yeah, I get what you mean, maybe we'd get more games like Hotaru if it sold well, games that won't be targets to censorship in the first place.
Still, I enjoy games like Criminal Girls too and if their stance on this that all sales show their "business strategy" on censorship is working, I have little to no choice than get as many people aware of it and try to get them not to buy anything in general if that all is only going to enforce their current BS Censorship.


And here we are with the problem; how would buying Hotaru, a game with no censorship (presumably), show NISA that censorship is working?


I'm not sure about that either, but it's what Houk said, not word to word but it was something like "NISA still being alive means we're doing things right" which means even if some game that is not ruined with censorship sells well it'll just enforce their censorship not seeing the problem cause "they're still alive".

Ah, artemusclyde was faster but yes, it was like that.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kanade2 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:46 am

ArmedDragoon wrote:
Esper wrote:
ArmedDragoon wrote:Just one thing directed to anti-censorship people who are canceling their NISA preorders, though; if Hotaru No Nikki isn't a colossal success because you guys aren't buying it because of an completely unrelated game about punishing dead lolis, I'm going to go to your houses and "censor" everything you own with a wood chipper.

Threats of violence are always a great way to start the morning. Until just now I have never heard of this game.


When all else fails, make a creative threat in jest. Criminal Girl's biggest crime is that it's taking attention away from the game I'm actually much more interested in.



There really isn't all that much information on Hotaru No Nikki right now to have a long term discussion about it.You also have to take into account that some people are wary of experimental games as they don't always end up being great.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby ArmedDragoon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:48 am

artemusclyde wrote:Cause in the censorship arguments NIS mods always bring up the whole, are company has been profitable for years so your opinion doesn't matter argument. So people see that as supporting any game from NIS as supporting censorship, the mods really need to drop that stance, it rubs people the wrong way and turns them off from the company. It also gives the company a negative image to customers by doing stuff like that. Once again bad customer service.


You guys are misunderstanding what the mods were saying and making a huge leap if you think that "NISA will act in the way that has been profitable for them for years" means "buying anything from NISA means they will censor all their games".

Especially since only three games have been censored by them! Though I guess four because of Rhapsody DS, which I've never played, I'm only going by what I heard. Four games, three of which aren't even NIS in-house games.

So yeah, looking at that at how low their censorship rate actually is, I honestly do think you guys misinterpreted what Houk was saying. And on the subject of Houk, even though he seems dismissive, he's actually a really good mod. The only company rep I've seen that communicates with the consumers and let's them know what's going on as much as he does was one of the Atlus admins, before the forums closed.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Zantagor » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:49 am

Totooria wrote:
Zantagor wrote:
I'm not sure you really know what actual localization means. I'm guessing you boycotted the Phoenix Wright series too right? Right?


"Localization is the process of adapting internationalized software for a specific region or language by adding locale-specific components and translating text."

Its translation, not censorship. What exactly is your argument here?


Actually, it's more than just translation.

adapting internationalized software for a specific region or language by adding locale-specific

If something that's acceptable in a region, isn't in another, then it will be changed. This is part of what localization is whether you like it or not. Cutting part of something that would get you refused in certain regions (EG: Germany, or Australia), even if it is censorship, is still part of the localization process.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:52 am

ArmedDragoon wrote:You guys are misunderstanding what the mods were saying and making a huge leap if you think that "NISA will act in the way that has been profitable for them for years" means "buying anything from NISA means they will censor all their games".

No one said all their games, but if censoring games and messing with scripts has been profitable enough for it to keep happening and the policy is "we will do it because we're making money," then it (supporting NISA = supporting NISA's "philosophy") seems like a reasonable conclusion to make.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Totooria » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:54 am

Zantagor wrote:Actually, it's more than just translation.

adapting internationalized software for a specific region or language by adding locale-specific

If something that's acceptable in a region, isn't in another, then it will be changed. This is part of what localization is whether you like it or not. Cutting part of something that would get you refused in certain regions (EG: Germany, or Australia), even if it is censorship, is still part of the localization process.


Nope. Adapting is meant to change phrases and dialogue, in a way that makes sense in other countries. An example would be changing a Japanese joke, or a reference to a Japanese politician / celebrity etc..

That does not mean cutting out content and censoring, especially if its not illegal in said country. So no, your wrong. Localization does not include censorship. Two different things.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Totori » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:56 am

So far NISA has censored:
Atelier Rorona (Age censor, ant the stupid crap about the casing)
Neptunia 1 (The case, yes that counts)
Rhapsody
Disgaea 3 (Stage editor)
Mugen Souls
Mugen Souls Z (Bathing Minigame, and the case)
And now Criminal Girls
(Anyone got anymore to add on here?)

From what I heard they changed Iris Heart also, but I'm not too sure on that one.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby ArmedDragoon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:58 am

Seventh wrote:
ArmedDragoon wrote:You guys are misunderstanding what the mods were saying and making a huge leap if you think that "NISA will act in the way that has been profitable for them for years" means "buying anything from NISA means they will censor all their games".

No one said all their games, but if censoring games and messing with scripts has been profitable enough for it to keep happening and the policy is "we will do it because we're making money," then it (supporting NISA = supporting NISA's "philosophy") seems like a reasonable conclusion to make.


It's a harmful conclusion for the future of all 2D adventure puzzle games and I won't stand for it!

So basically you're not wrong, but still
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Neogaf wrote:In my opinion the main creative heads behind such games are undoubtedly pedophiles. There's no doubt in my mind. Having them lose money doesn't bother me at all.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:00 am

If it helps, I'm getting the firefly game no matter what happens here. :lol:
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby will57 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:02 am

I also plan on buying it as well, i'm even hoping for a physical release. :D
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby artemusclyde » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:02 am

ArmedDragoon wrote:
artemusclyde wrote:Cause in the censorship arguments NIS mods always bring up the whole, are company has been profitable for years so your opinion doesn't matter argument. So people see that as supporting any game from NIS as supporting censorship, the mods really need to drop that stance, it rubs people the wrong way and turns them off from the company. It also gives the company a negative image to customers by doing stuff like that. Once again bad customer service.


You guys are misunderstanding what the mods were saying and making a huge leap if you think that "NISA will act in the way that has been profitable for them for years" means "buying anything from NISA means they will censor all their games".

Especially since only three games have been censored by them! Though I guess four because of Rhapsody DS, which I've never played, I'm only going by what I heard. Four games, three of which aren't even NIS in-house games.

So yeah, looking at that at how low their censorship rate actually is, I honestly do think you guys misinterpreted what Houk was saying. And on the subject of Houk, even though he seems dismissive, he's actually a really good mod. The only company rep I've seen that communicates with the consumers and let's them know what's going on as much as he does was one of the Atlus admins, before the forums closed.


It is a leap, but you got to remember that the mods are representing the company. So when people see stuff like that, they view it as company words. I personally won't be canceling all my orders, besides of course refusing to buy Criminal Girls and Mugen Souls, but it does make me wary of the company when they say stuff that basically amounts to, we don't care about your opinion. Brings up bad memories of ar tonelico 2 when I found out halfway through the game that the Japanese voices were removed. Basically it results in me not trusting NIS very much. Also, they have really bad customer service, some of the arguments they make is just ludicrous, like that one mod who said that their customers buy games because of how they translate. That comment made me rage so hard especially when they do stuff like the dumb std joke.


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