PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:18 am

Rednal wrote:1) Last I checked, yeah, the petition reached somewhere around 1500 signatures. That might not be high enough to prompt NISA to change their minds. They can't do everything that everyone wants - if you want a company to make a change, you usually have to demonstrate massive support for it. As... passionate... as many anti-censorship people are, I'm not sure they've actually demonstrated that yet.

Actually these kind of niche games currently tend to sell between 10k and 20k in their opening week on Steam and then they go from there, using the 1500 people you can estimate that 1000-2000 will not buy the game, that's about 10% increased sales potential right there, again considering the time they have spent on The Firefly Diaries which sold about 5k (anywhere between 2k and 7k actually) I wonder what other incentive they need for this.
Mugen Souls and Mugen Souls Z should have proven something since they're comparable to neptunia games in price, target audience, interest, and frankly I can see them being less broken than the latest Neptunia titles on release, they should have had comparable sales.
I know, I know Mugen Souls/Z is not published by NISA there, but sales don't happen in a vacuum, and the potential for lost sales I suspect is greater than the "confirmed" 1500 people, also for all my ranting CG:IO could be successful, you never know.

Anyway this is damned if you do and damned if you don't situation:

- if the game is a success NISA won't revert the changes, because why should they if the game sold?
- if the game is a failure NISA will think there's no market /a small market for these games and won't revert the changes because, why should they invest resources into something that has no market?
- if the game is a succes they'll release CG2 in the same state and brush off criticism
- if the game is a failure CG2 might never come, let alone in a director's cut version, since again why put effort into something if the first didn't sell well?

Lastly at OP, hope for a fanmade patch otherwise I doubt NISA will use its resources to undo the changes.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Rednal » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:16 pm

If I were the one doing it, I'd try to aim for at least 50% of the game's sales on the petition - more if I could manage it. 10% could be in the "not enough people to make it financially worth it" range. Half of your audience, though? Or three quarters, all obviously and visibly agreeing? I think that would be considerably more likely to get their attention. This is definitely a case of "the more support you have, the better".
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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby BDSMKane2 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:00 pm

Rednal wrote:2) BDSMKane2? I wasn't twisting your words. I was replying to NISChina.

In that case, I apologize for responding to you under a false assumption.

Rednal wrote:If I were the one doing it, I'd try to aim for at least 50% of the game's sales on the petition - more if I could manage it. 10% could be in the "not enough people to make it financially worth it" range. Half of your audience, though? Or three quarters, all obviously and visibly agreeing? I think that would be considerably more likely to get their attention. This is definitely a case of "the more support you have, the better".

As for this, any developer or publisher in the video game industry is lucky to even get 1% of their sales in feedback. Even looking at the top 1500 users of this forum that's been here for seven years, and encompasses all NISA products, begins to dip down into users with only 10 posts(infrequent visitors). It took a year and four months for this forum to even reach 1500 total users. To have that sort of response on such a niche game, on an internet petition of all things, is massive. Considering it's not even a petition hosted on their own website, a formal gaming site, or in any fashion a popular or sponsored petition on change.org's website, makes the reception all the more incredible.

I actually would almost guarantee that if you count up the number of users on every board that have even commented on both CG1 and 2, over all of the internet, the total wouldn't even break 1000.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Rednal » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:31 am

Apology accepted. o wo/

As for percent of feedback... yeah, companies rarely get as much of it as they want. It's a bit of a problem, really - since without data, it's hard to know what's actually going on. For example, some people might interpret 1500 names on a petition as a huge response. Other people might interpret it as a gathering of the people who are most vocal about the topic - because in many cases, people are more likely to speak up if they dislike something, and less likely if they're satisfied. In that view, 1500 may not be very much. Without more data, we just don't know for sure. And given that, well... companies are probably going to default to playing it safe, rather than risking themselves for something that might be true.

Fortunately, I think social media has helped to make petitions and whatnot easier. XD The more effective you are at spreading your message, the more likely it is you can actually get the changes you want.
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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby xethyrus » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:00 pm

NISChina wrote:Gonna say again, that I might seem delusional but the trailer for CG1 does not really have any indication of any sort of censorship being invoked onto the game, except for the dialogue change "Motivation," but really, that's minor compared to the pink gas/voices, and none of that being changed was evident in that trailer.


Unfortunately the trailer starts with the ESRB rating which does not bode well.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby NISChina » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:12 pm

xethyrus wrote:
NISChina wrote:Gonna say again, that I might seem delusional but the trailer for CG1 does not really have any indication of any sort of censorship being invoked onto the game, except for the dialogue change "Motivation," but really, that's minor compared to the pink gas/voices, and none of that being changed was evident in that trailer.


Unfortunately the trailer starts with the ESRB rating which does not bode well.


I don't even know what to think about this anymore. Just going to have to wait and see...............................................................

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Rednal » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:42 pm

One more thing I should note...

Ghostlight said that they were told by Steam that they couldn't release the uncensored version of Mugen Souls there. Criminal Girls is unquestionably "worse" content-wise, so unless Steam changes their minds, it's highly unlikely that an uncensored release is even possible.
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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:12 am

Rednal wrote:One more thing I should note...

Ghostlight said that they were told by Steam that they couldn't release the uncensored version of Mugen Souls there. Criminal Girls is unquestionably "worse" content-wise, so unless Steam changes their minds, it's highly unlikely that an uncensored release is even possible.


"Steam" might have given them an answer which was a canned "just-to-be-on-the-safe-side" PR answer. They're known to be...huh..."funny" with game content, and as "funny" I mean inconsistent.

For example, Sekai Project and other VN publishers are happily localizing VNs and removing the porn from them for "all ages" versions, then they release patches to restore such content, being less than subtle in doing so as they point you to the patches on their own steam forums. Steam stance on this is that they don't care because those patches are considered mods and are outside of their store.
Yet you have stuff like this with MangaGamer being told they cannot do the same because of "reasons"

When first Kindred Spirits on the Roof was coming to Steam nobody raised a peep, then idiotic outlets in their search for clickbait started to make headlines along the lines of "Sex Game coming to Steam uncensored", that resulted in Valve getting worried and caused the game to go through further review.

Spoiler:
OR: To follow up, what was that process like?
MG: A long and anxious one, honestly. When we first approached our contacts at Valve to discuss the possibility of Kindred Spirits’ release, we described the story, the content, and the extent of its sexual depictions to Valve. We got approval, put the page up, and sent out our press releases about the announcement. As we expected, the press ran strong and hard with the “sex on Steam” angle, causing more Valve representatives to request an opportunity to give the game a thorough review before we earned final approval. We were all very anxious during this final review process, but super excited when we received the final go.

source (NSFW warning): http://operationrainfall.com/2016/05/12 ... r-eroge/2/

Loren the Amazon Princess had outfits of some girls altered for the Steam release, yet somehow the breasts in Kindred Spirits on the Roof and nudity in other games are no problems (NSFW warning)

Hatred got pulled from Steam just to get readded later

Monster Monpiece is being allowed uncensored and unrated on Steam (Look at LtAP outfits then look at Monster Monpiece)

Also why is the MS minigame not allowed, but CG minigame is allowed in the game? Now that's a valid question since we have a game to compare Mugen Souls case of censorship to. In one instance they're fine with minor cuts and in the other they won't let them put in the minigame at all? (with CG:IO minigame being "worse")
But above all else why would Prinny Supervisor say it's possible if company policies weren't in the way and was financially feasible if they couldn't do it?
My point with all this is that it doesn't mean that CG2 cannot make it there uncut and unrated because Steam is pretty inconsistent (or at the very least they're more lax now) with their "policies" so what Ghostlight is saying doesn't mean much until NISA tries and gets shot down.


Side Note: just to be 100% clear, I know that eroge visual novel are a different kind of beast compared to CG/MS/whatever and they're NOT comparable when it comes of content, nor am I entertaining the idea that NISA should release a patch, those examples are meant to prove that Steam is "funny" when it comes of such stuff.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:26 pm

Hey guys, it's been a long, long while. I apologize for not hanging around the forums much, but we've been very busy as of late. Here are a few things I have to say about this thread:

For one, Beta signup for the Steam version has begun! Please sign up here if you'd like to beta test!

Second, the Steam release of CG will be a direct port of the localized vita version. We currently do not have any plans to release a patch or a second, "unrated" version of the game. This is for multiple reasons, most of which I am not at liberty to say, but I will repeat what I mentioned in other threads: the Steam version has been under development for a very long time, with decisions made way back that are just not practical (or in some cases not possible) to change now.

Third, I see that there has been a lot said about me in this thread... But I'm not sure that this is really the place to address that. I will stick to just delivering information for now! Probably better handled in the other thread.
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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby razisgosu » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:36 pm

Rednal wrote:One more thing I should note...

Ghostlight said that they were told by Steam that they couldn't release the uncensored version of Mugen Souls there. Criminal Girls is unquestionably "worse" content-wise, so unless Steam changes their minds, it's highly unlikely that an uncensored release is even possible.


You shouldn't believe that for a second. Ghostlight was very clearly lying and using Steam as a scapegoat. Ghostlight took the quick and easy route and ported the censored version with zero intention of releasing an uncensored version or a patch. They even said they'd look into releasing a patch once, and never brought it up again. They were very clearly looking for excuses to quell the negative feedback.

Prinny Supervisor wrote:Hey guys, it's been a long, long while. I apologize for not hanging around the forums much, but we've been very busy as of late. Here are a few things I have to say about this thread:

For one, Beta signup for the Steam version has begun! Please sign up here if you'd like to beta test!

Second, the Steam release of CG will be a direct port of the localized vita version. We currently do not have any plans to release a patch or a second, "unrated" version of the game. This is for multiple reasons, most of which I am not at liberty to say, but I will repeat what I mentioned in other threads: the Steam version has been under development for a very long time, with decisions made way back that are just not practical (or in some cases not possible) to change now.

Third, I see that there has been a lot said about me in this thread... But I'm not sure that this is really the place to address that. I will stick to just delivering information for now! Probably better handled in the other thread.


That's still pretty disappointing to hear. At the end of the day this is a PC release where I fully expect the game will likely see at least 1-2 post launch patches to fix bugs and such. Saying that its not practical or possible to go back and uncensor the release is really just PR speak, at least in my opinion. I have little to no doubt there will definitely be dev resources working on Criminal Girls PC post launch.

To me it feels like there is simply a lack of desire to launch the PC version in its original state, which is a business decision I understand, just one I cannot agree with no matter how it is presented to me.

Any luck on the Criminal Girls 2 Petition? It was sitting up over 1500 signatures last I saw, surely that at least got some reaction from internal folks.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby dromans » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:59 am

Rednal wrote:One more thing I should note...

Ghostlight said that they were told by Steam that they couldn't release the uncensored version of Mugen Souls there. Criminal Girls is unquestionably "worse" content-wise, so unless Steam changes their minds, it's highly unlikely that an uncensored release is even possible.

It's pretty much been confirmed it was a lie, Ghostlight has been caught at least once lying about why they censored the games they released. For Agarest Wars 2 they said PEGI forced them to censor it when PEGI themselves blatantly said that GL was lying.
Not to mention that seriously, the censored and uncensored versions of Criminal Girls are both as "perverted", so it's pretty clear that if the censored version is allowed on Steam, so would the uncensored version be. Steam is much more leniant with erotic content than any other site lately.

As for CG1's statement, considering the game is rated by ESRB on PC and on the Steam page and all I'm guessing there are multiple problems with uncensoring it legally due to bondness with ESRB or something?
I think it's a shame you guys didn't think about the idea of releasing it uncut because I feel it's kinda sad to not give it a try for the Steam release, especially since it would make a lot of people happy.
Anyway I really hope you guys consider CG2 for an uncut release...

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:21 am

dromans wrote:As for CG1's statement, considering the game is rated by ESRB on PC and on the Steam page and all I'm guessing there are multiple problems with uncensoring it legally due to bondness with ESRB or something?

No even if a game is rated they can still release an uncut version read this post for more information (the context is about the second game but it applies to any game)
viewtopic.php?p=890008#p890008

it's just too late to make an uncut release at this point in time when everything is scheduled, hence while CG2 is rated and censored is still not too late to have them change their mind and release it uncut on Steam, but NISA has a policy of not releasing unrated games, so unless we manage to make them change their mind the second will be censored as well.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby xethyrus » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:27 am

In relation to current games on Steam. Whether Ghostlight were telling the truth or lieing Steam have become more lenient than they used to be after people pushing their boundaries.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby xethyrus » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:31 am

Prinny Supervisor wrote:the Steam version has been under development for a very long time, with decisions made way back that are just not practical (or in some cases not possible) to change now.

This point would sound more believable if we hadn't been telling you we wanted the game uncensored since before the game was even released on vita...

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:32 pm

xethyrus wrote:In relation to current games on Steam. Whether Ghostlight were telling the truth or lieing Steam have become more lenient than they used to be after people pushing their boundaries.


case in point (NSFW warning):

http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/11/17/ ... ly-access/


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